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Thread: Gov. OK With Guns In Capitol Building

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    Regular Member KYT's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Gov. OK With Guns In Capitol Building

    Beshear Says No Need To Crack Down On Gun Owners

    For anyone that hasn't seen this gem yet.

    http://www.wlky.com/r/26453467/detail.html

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    So has anyone told her she's wasting her time writing those bills?

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    Yeah way to go gov.

    I work for state govt. and havent really been liking gov. beshear lately. But when I heard that I gotta say he went up several places in my book. I think its great we have a gov. that so far seems to be on gun owners sides. We need more like him in other states. I do know that security at the capitol has not let ppl in that was openly wearing a firearm in the past. I wonder how it would be treated now.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I do know that security at the capitol has not let ppl in that was openly wearing a firearm in the past. I wonder how it would be treated now.?
    Really? I was always under the impression that OCers could go right in.

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    Me too

    I thought the same thing, but I read in a newpaper this morning of instances of people being escorted out for oc

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    I am unfamiliar with anyone being escorted out. I AM familiar with people both OCing and CCing in the capitol building. I have not done either YET. When I saw the metal detectors at the capitol last time, I asked the security about what would happen if you try to OC/CC there. They said if you CC, they'll ask for you license, if you OC then walk right in--either way, they mentioned taking the gun off, putting it in the basket with your keys and wallet, and sliding them down as you walk through the metal detector where you'll be allowed to rearm. I've heard that if you OC you might have a trooper tail you around. Regardless, I've never heard of anyone being turned away.

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    Thats what the paper said. The daily independent. there website is dailyindependent.com if you want to check it out. it was in todays paper, it is free to access. It actually stated someone that was just carrying a empty holster was escorted out.

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    Technically if they take your permit, then aren't you automatically in violation for CCW without having your permit in your possession?

    I wish those folks at the capitol security would think about how strange their policies are. I wonder if lets say 25 open carry folks came in together and went in different directions if they have enough "escorts" to assign one to each person?

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    anybody have a link to a statehouse carry tracker?

    I am aware of the following states allowing gun carry in statehouses: Virginia, Texas, New Hampshire, and Kentucky

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    @Glockster Authorities thought that man was carrying in the gallery which is a restricted area. I believe the law bans CC and if I remember correctly, is silent on OC. When I was questioning the security guard, she mentioned I couldn't carry in the gallery. Regardless, no one to my knowledge has been hassled for carrying around all the other parts of the capitol building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    @Glockster Authorities thought that man was carrying in the gallery which is a restricted area. I believe the law bans CC and if I remember correctly, is silent on OC. When I was questioning the security guard, she mentioned I couldn't carry in the gallery. Regardless, no one to my knowledge has been hassled for carrying around all the other parts of the capitol building.
    What is this "gallery"? If they are silent about OC, then most likely, it sounds illegal for them to deny OC there.

    I was under the impression that the only place in the capital that you couldn't carry a firearm at all was in a meeting of the general assembly?

    As I've said before, I am ok with some limitations as to where we can carry and I don't agree with all the places that are off limits, but we must be wary of them inching away our rights.
    Last edited by UnfetteredMight; 01-13-2011 at 08:55 PM.

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    @Unfettered The gallery is the public balcony in either the House or the Senate---within the General Assembly.

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    Thumbs up

    this is like what happened in a way to me in 2009, i was going to take my beagle out in sept. 09 and called about carrying my 357 handgun. they said no that it might be considered that i was hunting, bull #$%#. anyways if ya'll remember my dog got attacked by 2 pitbulls and died the next day. i emailed the kdfw and the govenor, the govenors office emailed me back as well as the govenor wrote me a letter. the kdfw called me and opologized about what happened. the govenors letter which i still have said open carry is protected in ky. the kdfw has no power to regulate the carry of fire arms exept those used on the game i'm hunting. the letter went on to talk about the law that went into affect july 2010. even tho open cary could be done while hunting before this law, as the govenor put it this law just makes it easier for us open carriers as the kdfw now knows they can't stop us from carrying for defense. i think the govenor knows the gun laws of ky., he's just doing these things to let the ones that don't know about carrying, know about it. i think the govenor has shown he is a pro gun govenor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    i think the govenor has shown he is a pro gun govenor.
    I'm inclined to agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    @Glockster Authorities thought that man was carrying in the gallery which is a restricted area. I believe the law bans CC and if I remember correctly, is silent on OC. When I was questioning the security guard, she mentioned I couldn't carry in the gallery. Regardless, no one to my knowledge has been hassled for carrying around all the other parts of the capitol building.
    Thanks for setting me straight, I kinda thought that was odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    this is like what happened in a way to me in 2009, i was going to take my beagle out in sept. 09 and called about carrying my 357 handgun. they said no that it might be considered that i was hunting, bull #$%#. anyways if ya'll remember my dog got attacked by 2 pitbulls and died the next day. i emailed the kdfw and the govenor, the govenors office emailed me back as well as the govenor wrote me a letter. the kdfw called me and opologized about what happened. the govenors letter which i still have said open carry is protected in ky. the kdfw has no power to regulate the carry of fire arms exept those used on the game i'm hunting. the letter went on to talk about the law that went into affect july 2010. even tho open cary could be done while hunting before this law, as the govenor put it this law just makes it easier for us open carriers as the kdfw now knows they can't stop us from carrying for defense. i think the govenor knows the gun laws of ky., he's just doing these things to let the ones that don't know about carrying, know about it. i think the govenor has shown he is a pro gun govenor.
    Any chance you could scan that letter and post it here? I'm sure the folks on this forum would like to have a copy of that dude just as much as I.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    I would

    id like to have a copy of that letter, i think that is amazing. Gov. beshear has definately got my vote again. Why cant all politicians be like our gov. is.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I've open carried in the Kentucky Capitol and Capitol Annex, and I've conceal carried in those buildings, but most of the time I do neither because it's kinda complicated and for those trips I decided it didn't help the cause.

    When I carried concealed, I had been there in the morning without a weapon, talked with a guard on the inside, verified their interpretation of the relevant laws (and got it on an audio recording just in case), then I returned after lunch with a concealed 9mm. I was walking up to the bogus security and the officer was motioning to me to to walk through the metal detector. I started by saying, "I was here with the group this morning..." and she saw my little blue dot sticker (that can be purchased in any office supply store, and was passed out to the group with NO SECURITY CHECK AT ALL), and she said, "Oh, OK, you can walk around." I finished, "... and I'm carrying a concealed weapon this afternoon." Her demeanor immediately changed. She rolled her eyes, slumped her shoulders, and said, "You people just love to do that, don't you?" I thought about pointing to her handgun and saying, "You people seem to love to do that, too.", but I didn't.

    She didn't act threatened. It was an inconvenience. She asked for my CCDW license, which is the only time I've been asked to produce it, and then she called someone that sounded like "executive security". She read them all of my relevant data and a thorough description of me. I don't think I was followed that day. Maybe they watched me on CCTV cameras, as if that would help if I was a security threat.

    I know someone who sued a judge, and is now deprived of the right to keep and bear arms. He entered the Capitol without a weapon last year, and he was followed closely by two armed guards.

    The current legislative effort to ban guns in the House gallery stems from some stuff that happened late in last year's legislative session. I was in the House gallery the day after some woman saw a guy who was open carrying while video recording, asked him about his pistol, he explained the law, then she asked one of the Kentucky State Police guards who are stationed there, they asked the guy about it, and he again explained the law. The police seemed satisfied, but a report of this incident made its way to some members of the Kentucky House of Representatives. I was there the next day with a few gun-friendly liberty buddies, but none of us were carrying. One of my friends had left his pistol in the car but hadn't bothered to remove the empty holster. The police were apparently on heightened alert from yesterday. My friend was squatting in the aisle talking to me. I was seated next to the aisle in the House gallery before the start of the legislative session. A Kentucky State Police officer walked up behind my large friend, grabbed him and pulled him to a standing position. Other officers were nearby. My friend was shocked by the unprovoked physical contact. They asked about the firearm, and I believe they were trying to assert that his open carry firearm had become concealed by his clothing. If it was concealed, how did they see it? And of course, it was an empty holster and not a deadly weapon. This encounter went down hill from there. My friend was escorted from the gallery, with some pushing, shoving, and my friend saying in a raised voice, "Get your hands off of me!"

    They straightened it out in the hallway. I think most of it was about authoritarianism and not the RKBA. I got the impression that my friend didn't appreciate their attitude, and would have been very cooperative if the incident would have started with, "Could we speak with you for a moment, sir?", and the KSP seemed to feel the need to dominate the situation from the start and demand immediate and unquestioning obedience. It's important for the police to control a situation, for everyone's safety, and that often involves an immediate show of force, but in this case, it wasn't the best course of action in my opinion. They didn't know my friend, so it's not fair to Monday morning quarterback this altercation, but I do think they could have handled it a lot better, particularly after they realized there was no gun.

    My friend filed a complaint with the KSP. I gave a recorded witness statement to the KSP investigator, as did our other friend. The KSP ruled that there was no wrongdoing and my friend didn't get his apology. Hopefully, despite the outcome, the complaint did help establish future policy that's more respectful of citizens' rights.

    I will say that this is the only time I've seen the KSP behave in a manner that I thought wasn't appropriate. I've always found the behavior of the KSP officers I've seen on patrol (as opposed to Capitol duty) to be exemplary. I generally hold the KSP in high esteem. They do a difficult job, for not a lot of pay.

    After the Wrestle Mania Rumble In The Gallery, the House was called to order and near the end of the legislative session we attended, Mary Lou Marzian and another Louisville representative spoke on the House floor about the need to change the rules to prohibit guns in the gallery... "before it becomes a shooting gallery!" Oh noes!!! There was also the added "for the children" scary rhetoric. Marzian spoke of the elementary school classes who are usually in the gallery and the young pages on the House floor.

    The irony here is that Kentucky started regulating concealed carry after one Kentucky legislator stabbed another with a cane sword, in the late 1800s. We should probably use metal detectors to keep legislators from bringing guns onto the House floor, for the safety of the poor innocent potential victims in the gallery!

    Guns are not allowed in legislative chambers, and that would include the House and Senate floor. The other parts of the Capitol complex where guns are prohibited are the Kentucky Supreme Court and the committee meeting rooms. There is a question whether the galleries above the Senate and House are part of those legislative chambers. Historically, the gallery has been considered a separate room overlooking the legislative chambers, but there are no walls dividing the two areas, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to change the established policy of allowing guns in the gallery.

    BTW - Louisville Representative Mary Lou Marzian was one of the legislators who helped defeat last year's Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I OC'ed in the capitol last year. I put my gun in the tray and went through the metal detector. After that I picked up my keys, money clip, pen and Para 1911 put everything away (but not concealed) and continued on in. I did have an escort the entire time I was there. He walked around with me everywhere I went. He was OC, too. I thought it was just that they knew I was a VIP. No one ever said anything about having to leave, arrest or disorderly conduct. It was all very low key. The next time I went I was CC. They asked for my license and held it until I returned to leave. No escort this time. I missed having someone to talk to.
    Felt all alone, huh? *LOL*
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    It's GREAT to see you back on here, Liberty! Alot of us have missed you and you're keen insights.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty4Ever View Post
    Guns are not allowed in legislative chambers, and that would include the House and Senate floor. The other parts of the Capitol complex where guns are prohibited are the Kentucky Supreme Court and the committee meeting rooms. There is a question whether the galleries above the Senate and House are part of those legislative chambers. Historically, the gallery has been considered a separate room overlooking the legislative chambers, but there are no walls dividing the two areas, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to change the established policy of allowing guns in the gallery.
    So basically, a person could be in the gallery and see into either chamber?

    Under those conditions, logically considering the purpose of a firearm not being allowed in either the chamber, I would have to say they are right if they do ban them in the gallery. During a legislative session that is.

    I still don't like it though.

    I agree it is good to see you posting again.

    Something I was thinking the other day, I hadn't seen Mr Mitch post in a while, anyone heard from him.
    Last edited by UnfetteredMight; 01-15-2011 at 02:14 AM.

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    @Unfettered: The House and Senate are at the opposite sides of the building. Each has their own balcony which and as Liberty said, there's no wall or curtain or anything to separate the two.

    Welcome back Liberty! You've been missed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    No more so than if you hand it to a policeman in the street.
    Yeah I got that part, but my point was leaving your permit behind as you ventured around the capitol. It still seems like a silly procedure, at least to me.
    Last edited by MrOverlay; 01-15-2011 at 11:50 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfetteredMight View Post
    So basically, a person could be in the gallery and see into either chamber?

    Under those conditions, logically considering the purpose of a firearm not being allowed in either the chamber, I would have to say they are right if they do ban them in the gallery. During a legislative session that is.

    I still don't like it though.

    I agree it is good to see you posting again.

    Something I was thinking the other day, I hadn't seen Mr Mitch post in a while, anyone heard from him.
    I had been wondering about Liberty & Mr. Mitch both for some time now. We've got one back, now where's the other, I miss his "interesting" stories. LOL
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    I had been wondering about Liberty & Mr. Mitch both for some time now. We've got one back, now where's the other, I miss his "interesting" stories. LOL
    Yeah me too.

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