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Thread: Address on ID when purchasing

  1. #1
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    Address on ID when purchasing

    I recently moved within Fairfax County.

    My new residence does not provide for me to receive mail at the residence.

    I already have a PO Box where I receive mail that I listed as "mailing" address when I re-registered my vehicles this year.

    I assumed (I know, I knew better) that both the physical address of the vehicles and the mailing address would be on the new registration. The DMV also sent me a card that verified that they were changing my drivers license address too, and to carry that card.

    So, with the background laid out there, my question is:

    FFL's will not sell to somebody that lists a PO Box as their address, right?

    Thanks in advance!

    Carl

  2. #2
    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    If your primary ID (your DL) has a PO Box, another item is needed to show your physical address. Something like an utility bill (which shows your PO Box for mailing, but a physical address for service) could work. Your voter's registration card will most likely show both addresses (mailing and physical), too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    If your primary ID (your DL) has a PO Box, another item is needed to show your physical address. Something like an utility bill (which shows your PO Box for mailing, but a physical address for service) could work. Your voter's registration card will most likely show both addresses (mailing and physical), too.
    You can use your US passport with your address written in pencil on the passport as your secondary address proof; see statute and asociated regulation in the Virginia Administrative Code.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You can use your US passport with your address written in pencil on the passport as your secondary address proof; see statute and asociated regulation in the Virginia Administrative Code.
    This just makes me chuckle...

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    You can use a POBox address DL or VAID so long as you also present a government issued document with your current street address on it and also some other document that proves that corresponding street address. I think voter cards are the handiest for this purpose.

    I wish DMV was as smart as the cable, phone, gas and electric companies who have figured out how to send bills for residences to PO boxes.

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf See Instructions for question 20a and 20b.
    Last edited by longwatch; 01-13-2011 at 01:18 AM. Reason: add cite

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You can use your US passport with your address written in pencil on the passport as your secondary address proof; see statute and asociated regulation in the Virginia Administrative Code.
    There is a growing number of dealers who do not accept passports as secondary IDs. As about 19 of 20 passports that I see don't have addresses filled in when presented I don't blame them.
    Really though, other than for the PO box situation why haven't we pushed to eliminate Virginia's second form of ID requirement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    There is a growing number of dealers who do not accept passports as secondary IDs. As about 19 of 20 passports that I see don't have addresses filled in when presented I don't blame them.
    Really though, other than for the PO box situation why haven't we pushed to eliminate Virginia's second form of ID requirement?
    All people have to do is fill in the address in pencil - this is a state law issue and state law says dealers are to accept them.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This just makes me chuckle...

    TFred
    Made me chuckle too but for another reason. Mike is assuming everyone has a passport. I don't even have a SS card

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    See why I love this group?!

    Great conversation items.

    Totally forgot about the passport.

    Sent off for the new voter card yesterday.

    Thanks everyone!

    Carl

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    All people have to do is fill in the address in pencil - this is a state law issue and state law says dealers are to accept them.
    Well go to the Dale City gun show, try to buy a gun from Dark Suns table using a passport and DL and see what happens. What part of 18.2-308.2:2 says dealers must accept them?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    Well go to the Dale City gun show, try to buy a gun from Dark Suns table using a passport and DL and see what happens. What part of 18.2-308.2:2 says dealers must accept them?
    n.


    That's not a good example Longwatch. Dark sun lives in a world all their own and if they ever were in touch with reality, broke ceased communication long ago.

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    Regular Member SirTiger's Avatar
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    The passport thing is really besides the point. Its at our discretion anyway.

    But it would really just be easier for you to have the bill with a matching DL.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    There are probably two different kinds of scenarios for this issue.

    1) If you are actually buying a gun from a dealer, they can impose any kind of whim upon you that they wish, short of discriminating against one of the Federally protected categories. If they want you to ***** your finger and leave a thumbprint in blood, unless there is some obscure law against that, they can certainly refuse to do business with you if they want. They may not stay in business long, but that is their decision.

    2) The situation where it gets sticky is if you are just doing a FFL Transfer for a gun you have already purchased from another dealer, usually out-of-state. In these cases, the gun is already "owned" by you, but the transfer of possession has not yet taken place. In this case, it would seem to me that the FFL is much more tightly constrained to the letter of the law where deciding which IDs to accept.

    I would certainly suppose there has been no case law in situation like that, but it's interesting to think about.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    n.


    That's not a good example Longwatch. Dark sun lives in a world all their own and if they ever were in touch with reality, broke ceased communication long ago.
    The reality is they are one of the highest volume dealers in the state, there are others who won't take passports but they came to mind first because they wouldn't take mine.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    There are probably two different kinds of scenarios for this issue.

    1) If you are actually buying a gun from a dealer, they can impose any kind of whim upon you that they wish, short of discriminating against one of the Federally protected categories. If they want you to ***** your finger and leave a thumbprint in blood, unless there is some obscure law against that, they can certainly refuse to do business with you if they want. They may not stay in business long, but that is their decision.

    2) The situation where it gets sticky is if you are just doing a FFL Transfer for a gun you have already purchased from another dealer, usually out-of-state. In these cases, the gun is already "owned" by you, but the transfer of possession has not yet taken place. In this case, it would seem to me that the FFL is much more tightly constrained to the letter of the law where deciding which IDs to accept.

    I would certainly suppose there has been no case law in situation like that, but it's interesting to think about.

    TFred
    Situation 2 reminds me of a time when a nonresident alien came in to pickup his transferred 'assault firearm'. He was real unhappy to hear that it was illegal for him to touch it much less take possession of of it.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    The reality is they are one of the highest volume dealers in the state, there are others who won't take passports but they came to mind first because they wouldn't take mine.
    No question about that...but they still don't know what color the sky is, look like they just starred in a mad max movie and PO nearly everyone I know.

    They have good prices. That's the only good thing that can be said about them.

    They have a select crowd of groupies that insist they're just misunderstood boys that forgot how to talk customers.

    NOT TO MENTION THE GENERAL, who spends his gunshow time wandering around, looking at peoples guns, asking if he can have a friend evaluate it before he buys it and having Dark Sun pull the old good guy/bad guy routine to get it for nothing.
    Last edited by peter nap; 01-14-2011 at 03:12 PM.

  17. #17
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    NOT TO MENTION THE GENERAL, who spends his gunshow time wandering around, looking at peoples guns, asking if he can have a friend evaluate it before he buys it and having Dark Sun pull the old good guy/bad guy routine to get it for nothing.
    Would you expound on this a bit please?

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Would you expound on this a bit please?
    I've ranted about the General before.

    I didn't name him, other regular vendors at the shows did, he's that obvious.

    The General is a nice old fellow that walks around the show. He got me twice before I started telling him to %uck off.

    He'll see a private sale and walk up and ask to see it. After fondling it for a minute, he'll ask the price and then go on about how he loves it.
    Then he drops the bomb.

    "I really want this but could I show it to a friend first"
    He does this with a sing songy "I'm such a nice fellow" voice (sorta like Novacop, just older)

    Then he walks over to Dark Sun where Mad Max and company start on it.

    Well this is a scratch and I can get them for x price and Book on this is XX..You get the idea.

    Then he makes an absurd offer and looks hurt when you turn it down.

    I watched him do this 18 times one day.
    I think the proper name is a "Shill".

    Someone here thought it might have been Dark Son's father. I only met his father once. I bought an ATV from him and didn't know it was his father. (I wouldn't have even looked at if I had)

    I can't say it was or not. They are about the sameage and build but since I wasn't thinking about it when I met him, I didn't pay any attention.
    Last edited by peter nap; 01-15-2011 at 05:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've ranted about the General before...
    Ah, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for him.

    I recognize "Dark Sun Dad." He had his own FFL... Patriot Arms.

    Patriot Arms was one of the Bloomberg lawsuit targets, and Dark Sun Dad shut it down.
    Last edited by DrMark; 01-16-2011 at 12:37 AM.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Ah, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for him.

    I recognize "Dark Sun Dad." I had his own FFL... Patriot Arms.

    Patriot Arms was one of the Bloomberg lawsuit targets, and Dark Sun Dad shut it down.
    Yep, I know that Mark. He's selling stuff on ebay now unless the time period of his agreement has expired. He was decent enough when I bought the ATV, I gt a fair deal and it was exactly as represented. I've got no quarrel with him except (and that's assuming he is the General) for being the straight man at gun shows.

    Also....I never heard any complaints about Patriot Arms while they were in business. OTOH, I run into as many people that won't deal with Dark Sun because of the attitude, as will.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran gotm4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    All people have to do is fill in the address in pencil - this is a state law issue and state law says dealers are to accept them.
    There's a huge difference between what a dealer can and will accept for secondary ID. It's up to their own discretion if they want to sell/transfer you anything, It's their FFL and their day in court to answer when someone becomes a felon for trying to buy a firearm and it's that dealer who answers to the ATF during annual audits NOT the transferee.
    We don't accept a US Passport for the 2nd ID but do accept it for the citizenship document for what VA defines as assault weapons.
    armorer & notary public for VA Arms Co FFL/SOT
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