Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: WA congressmen play it cool; public is 'cool' to new gun laws

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863

    WA congressmen play it cool; public is 'cool' to new gun laws

    “..By no small coincidence, results from two national polls released yesterday say most Americans doubt tougher gun laws would prevent incidents like the Tucson, AZ shooting, and visits to their home districts Wednesday by Evergreen State Congressmen Rick Larsen and Jay Inslee suggest they agree with those poll results, despite a death threat to Seattle Rep. Jim McDermott…

    “…When I can stroll through Times Square, or the District of Columbia packing a pistol without fear of arrest or even an unwanted conversation with a beat cop, then and only then we might have something to discuss…”


    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...owing-shooting
    OR TRY THIS:
    http://tinyurl.com/4nz5l7z

  2. #2
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Doesn't "Baghdad Jim" receive threats on a regular basis? What's new.

    What would be more productive is to give some thought to dealing with the Mentally Impaired that are given some pills, told to take them, and then released to the street with little or no supervision. The warning bells were rung a long time ago with this "fruitcake" in Tucson but nobody, most importantly the parents, took any meaningful action.

    We've had police officers killed by "mental cases", an attempt on a President (Regan) by someone with real mental issues, and other cases where some early intervention and identification could make a difference. Instead we wait, afraid to take any action until they kill someone, or a bunch of someones. At the very least, intervention only to the extent that they are identified as Mentally Incapable, they become "known to the system" and those who should not have firearms can be ID'd and sales prevented by Dealers.

    Others will have differing views on that last point but in the Tucson example it might well have prevented him from obtaining a firearm.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  3. #3
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SEATAC, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,819
    " My advice to King: Come out here to the real Washington. Plan your visit to coincide with Jim Beal’s Open Carry barbecue down in Seatac. Rub elbows with gun-toting “everyday people.” Be safer here than you’ve ever been on your own in The Big Apple. "


    They would be Dave.They would be safer at the Willow lake BB-Q than any where.....



    Continue reading on Examiner.com: WA congressmen play it cool as polls reject gun control following shooting - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...#ixzz1B35iR9ou

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78
    As usual, an excellent article.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    As usual, an excellent article.
    Thx!

    Don't be shy. Jump into the discussion that's taking place in the reader comments below the column.

  6. #6
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richland, Washington, USA
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Doesn't "Baghdad Jim" receive threats on a regular basis? What's new.

    What would be more productive is to give some thought to dealing with the Mentally Impaired that are given some pills, told to take them, and then released to the street with little or no supervision. The warning bells were rung a long time ago with this "fruitcake" in Tucson but nobody, most importantly the parents, took any meaningful action.

    We've had police officers killed by "mental cases", an attempt on a President (Regan) by someone with real mental issues, and other cases where some early intervention and identification could make a difference. Instead we wait, afraid to take any action until they kill someone, or a bunch of someones. At the very least, intervention only to the extent that they are identified as Mentally Incapable, they become "known to the system" and those who should not have firearms can be ID'd and sales prevented by Dealers.

    Others will have differing views on that last point but in the Tucson example it might well have prevented him from obtaining a firearm.
    You know, I've had this discussion a few times this week, and I want to throw this idea out to you.

    People are bringing up that very point. "We need to evaluate people more for mental illness to restrict gun purchases." So where does it start? At what point is someone targeted for evaluation? Making death threats? Getting into a bar fight? Sleep trouble? Possibly having post-traumatic stress? Pointing their finger at someone in school?

    I hate to use an over-used cliched term, but this is a slippery slope to start going down. Soon it will include people with misdemeanors in the past that they took care of, people who are prescribed sleeping aids, then it will be Veterans who are on a "waiting period" because they *might* have post-traumatic stress, then it will be every single school kid who got into a fistfight in 5th grade.

    Take that into scope for a second.

    How many Americans have a misdemeanor? I don't know but I can safely say a lot of them. Should you be delayed for a firearms purchase because when you were 15 you got caught with a can of beer and paid a fine? Especially if there's a serial killer running around who's targeting people like you at your school? How about if you got a ticket in a school zone? Misdemeanor DUI? Jaywalking?

    Over 100 million Americans have sleep problems. Who knows how many of them have a sleep aid? Should we delay them because they got some Ambien for their rotating shift work? What about everyone who buys diphenhydramine tablets?

    Post-traumatic stress? Every single combat Veteran is lumped into this one, but some of the groups people forget to mention when they point at PTSD are: people in bad car crashes, assault victims, people who witnessed terrible things, people who suffered from child abuse, etc. The list you could come up with for people who have "potential post-traumatic stress" is HUGE.
    I've been beaten up in high school before, I've lost some family members due to violence and witnessed it, I was beat on as a kid, and I chose to join the military and fight for the country. Should I be delayed when I choose to buy a firearm? Should others here be delayed for that?
    Should a house wife that recently got assaulted be delayed from buying a handgun for her home because she "may have PTSD" from the incident?

    You know what would have hindered or prevented Loughner from killing all of those people in Tuscon? An armed detail for the event. Armed citizens. Sure, it may not have made the deaths a nice 0, but he may not have even thought about doing it if he knew there were going to be 50 people armed there. Sadly, he would have probably just picked a gun-free zone and hurt people there instead.

    tl;dr: People shouldn't be scrutinized for their choice to buy firearms because of a few factors, especially ones as ambiguous as post-traumatic stress, misdemeanors, sleeping problems, etc.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    killchain-

    You bring up valid points yet the fact remains that this individual was considered to be enough of a threat he was "booted" from college.

    When it comes to dealing with mental issues (let's focus on this for now) we still dump lots of known threats onto the streets with a bottle of pills, instructions to take them regularly, and NO follow-up. When one of these stops taking the meds and they they kill or maim a few people only then does it become time to think of something different. 30 days from now the whole issue of a troubled person being able to obtain a firearm legally will be forgotten. Unfortunately we may have several new laws aimed at punishing everyone that owns or tries to obtain a firearm.

    Just offering my views.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stafford, VA, , Afghanistan
    Posts
    349
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    killchain-

    You bring up valid points yet the fact remains that this individual was considered to be enough of a threat he was "booted" from college.

    When it comes to dealing with mental issues (let's focus on this for now) we still dump lots of known threats onto the streets with a bottle of pills, instructions to take them regularly, and NO follow-up. When one of these stops taking the meds and they they kill or maim a few people only then does it become time to think of something different. 30 days from now the whole issue of a troubled person being able to obtain a firearm legally will be forgotten. Unfortunately we may have several new laws aimed at punishing everyone that owns or tries to obtain a firearm.

    Just offering my views.
    How about that guy (college student) in CT last year who was threaten with expulsion for refusing to submit to a mental health evaluation because he attempted to debate private firearm ownership/carrying with the class (as part of the assignment). The teacher, an admitted anti- "felt" threatened, not because the student (an adult) threatened her in any form or fashion, but because he used logic and evidence to defend his point--and he was winning.

    So, instead of conceding her position, she labeled him and reported him to the university who demanded he submit to counseling....for doing nothing but debating.

    Now, the loon in AZ and the guy in CT are complete opposites, but the way people are talking about "suspicious behavior" should be an indicator for further action...is what I have a problem with.

  9. #9
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post

    Now, the loon in AZ and the guy in CT are complete opposites, but the way people are talking about "suspicious behavior" should be an indicator for further action...is what I have a problem with.
    In the case of the Arizona "Space Cadet" there was little or no suspicion involved. Rather than just "booting" this guy, it might have been more useful to involve law enforcement. At least they might have taken a closer look at whether he was a threat beyond the classroom. Hindsight, of course, showed that he was.

    I don't see that we need to examine every person that shows a tendency to "not fit in" but it seems rather counterproductive to ignore those that don't take a genius to see they have a few loose connections between their ears.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  10. #10
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SEATAC, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,819
    Well if you think about it all of us would be suspect.It seems that those that don't by into the obama utopia ,holding hands singing coom by ya have a mental defenciency.Those of us like myself that defend the Constitution,fly the American and the Gadsen flag,defend and practice the second amendment ,Veterans,,attend Tea party rallies on and on and should have a phyche evaluation. The left will find any excuse to ban our guns and events like AZ. give them new cause to start down this road.
    We can not tolerate a society where rights are comprimised because they think you may do something in the future.As far as I'm concerned I am the only one fit to judge if I am ok to carry. It is a very very dangerous path .We live in a reasonably free society and with that comes risk.I'm willing to accept it.Was it Franklin that said.."those that would give up freedom for safety deserve neither"

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Quote Originally Posted by DEROS72 View Post
    Well if you think about it all of us would be suspect.It seems that those that don't by into the obama utopia ,holding hands singing coom by ya have a mental defenciency.Those of us like myself that defend the Constitution,fly the American and the Gadsen flag,defend and practice the second amendment ,Veterans,,attend Tea party rallies on and on and should have a phyche evaluation. The left will find any excuse to ban our guns and events like AZ. give them new cause to start down this road.
    We can not tolerate a society where rights are comprimised because they think you may do something in the future.As far as I'm concerned I am the only one fit to judge if I am ok to carry. It is a very very dangerous path .We live in a reasonably free society and with that comes risk.I'm willing to accept it.Was it Franklin that said.."those that would give up freedom for safety deserve neither"

    Puts me in mind of the movie "Minority Report" with Tom Cruise. I didn't see it but read the synopsis: he is arrested and held because of something he may do in the future.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    So if the nut in AZ was noticed, evaluated, etc, and couldn't legally buy a gun, there's nothing to stop him from getting one illegally. We all know how easy it is to get one on the street. Someone who is determined to hurt people will find a way to do it, the law notwithstanding. What concerns me now is if his mental capacity was impaired, which it obviously was, how will justice prevail? Will he be tried and found guilty and go to prison? I hope the information the authorities recovered from his home and his computer is enough to prove premeditation and that he knew very well what he was doing. I think the bastard ought to fry.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    <snip>... I think the bastard ought to fry.
    NO! I totally disagree! The electric chair uses resources that can be used for better means. (Making toast in my toaster, for example) Using too much electricity can harm the Salmon runs! There is an environmentally friendlier way!

    ROPE

    It is reusable, renewable and harms no Salmon!

    Live Free or Die!

  14. #14
    Guest
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    808
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    NO! I totally disagree! The electric chair uses resources that can be used for better means. (Making toast in my toaster, for example) Using too much electricity can harm the Salmon runs! There is an environmentally friendlier way!

    ROPE

    It is reusable, renewable and harms no Salmon!

    But MA needs her clothes line to hang up the warsh!

  15. #15
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    NO! I totally disagree! The electric chair uses resources that can be used for better means. (Making toast in my toaster, for example) Using too much electricity can harm the Salmon runs! There is an environmentally friendlier way!

    ROPE

    It is reusable, renewable and harms no Salmon!


    JHP's, in some cases cheaper than rope.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,037
    I'm glad you brought this up killchain. If this forum were to hear of one of our compatriots railroaded with false DV claims by a bitter ex we would trust our comrade and holler at the injustice. Doesn't mean he didn't do it.

    Just as if we see an 'overly exuberant' fellow posting things we're not comfortable with, or perhaps acting in a way we're not comfortable with at a meeting. Not breaking the law perhaps - just too loud, brash, profane, and making sure all know he's armed and angry. How many would turn him in?

    Would you want to be turned in based on a layman's opinion?

    Say you politely ask your neighbor to clean up your yard after he lets his dog run loose. He takes offense, knows you OC, and files a false police report that you're crazy and threatening. Wanna go spend a couple days being checked out? Its now on your record. What happens the second time?

    How easy should we make it to deny another person's rights?

    I've seen a lot of calls here and in the national media to make it easier to ID / incarcerate / strip the rights from 'crazies'. I disagree. Due process every time.

    We don't have rights because its always safer to be in a free society; we have them because a free society is worth the costs.

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    NO! I totally disagree! The electric chair uses resources that can be used for better means. (Making toast in my toaster, for example) Using too much electricity can harm the Salmon runs! There is an environmentally friendlier way!

    ROPE

    It is reusable, renewable and harms no Salmon!

    Besides, "frying" him in "old sparky" just increases his "Carbon Footprint".

    Ruby-
    Yes, it may be easy to obtain a firearm on the street legally but when one is forced to go that route at least the press can't shout "and he was able to buy one legally". It seems like some of the recent "mass shooting" events had a common thread. A person that displayed all the behavior of a mentally disturbed person and was able to "fly under the radar" long enough to legally purchase a firearm and shoot large numbers of people. VA Tech is one that comes to mind.

    Just like laws can't keep people from killing people while driving drunk, they do cut down on what could be a far larger toll. Check the online "stat's" on denied firearm purchases. They are stopping some from obtaining firearms.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •