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Thread: HB2386 New P4P: Concealed Weapons Permit

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    HB2386 New P4P: Concealed Weapons Permit

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...111+ful+HB2386

    In a nutshell converts CHPs to CWPs, not perfect but I think puts us closer to decriminalization of weapons carry.
    "A permit issued pursuant to this section shall entitle the permittee to carry concealed any weapon that he may lawfully possess. "

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...111+ful+HB2386

    In a nutshell converts CHPs to CWPs, not perfect but I think puts us closer to decriminalization of weapons carry.
    "A permit issued pursuant to this section shall entitle the permittee to carry concealed any weapon that he may lawfully possess. "
    I'm not so sure it qualifies as P4P Longwatch. It doesn't give any special privileges over OC.

    I can carry anything I want Openly. This is like the Restaurant bill. It equalizes what OC Vs. CC can do.

    I had a CWP and carried a 9" 20 ga from time to time.
    Last edited by peter nap; 01-14-2011 at 03:17 PM.

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    For this to have any affect at all you'd have to nullify the weapons laws of all localities, their agencies, all agencies of the state and subdivisions including colleges and universities, such that weapons laws are uniform across the state. Without this, the statement that says that the permit does not provide permission to carry in places that are unlawful to carry would have to be determined for every city, county and burg throughout the state to determine if one could keep some knives in their pocket. Handguns of course are already excepted from restriction by localities and their agencies.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    For this to have any affect at all you'd have to nullify the weapons laws of all localities, their agencies, all agencies of the state and subdivisions including colleges and universities, such that weapons laws are uniform across the state. Without this, the statement that says that the permit does not provide permission to carry in places that are unlawful to carry would have to be determined for every city, county and burg throughout the state to determine if one could keep some knives in their pocket. Handguns of course are already excepted from restriction by localities and their agencies.
    So they would have to add 15.2-915 to the list of sections of code that need to be updated from "handgun" or "firearm" to "weapon". That would be a good change for whatever Committee it ends up going to.

    TFred

    P.S. I don't know if they could get passed such a large expansion of "preemption", but the fact that they didn't think of the local repercussions for concealed "weapons" tells us that the idea of preemption of firearms is very well entrenched in the minds of the lawmakers. That is a good thing.
    Last edited by TFred; 01-14-2011 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...111+ful+HB2386

    In a nutshell converts CHPs to CWPs
    Great! Just when I thought that I had finally drilled "CHP" into the head of everyone I know. . .

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    Great! Just when I thought that I had finally drilled "CHP" into the head of everyone I know. . .
    ha! me too!
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    So if this passes, we will have concealed WEAPONS PERMIT, which handguns still apply. But you could carry a 12 inch knife, a baton? short barrel rifles/shotguns if you have you're class 3 paper work. And anything else?

    Thats one step closer!


    I wonder if baton's would be added? as far as I know now I think OPEN CARRY of a baton is NOT LEGAL. Because it's like a switch blade knife? I do not know, do not qoute me..
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-14-2011 at 05:45 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    So if this passes, we will have concealed WEAPONS PERMIT, which handguns still apply. But you could carry a 12 inch knife, a baton? short barrel rifles/shotguns if you have you're class 3 paper work. And anything else?

    Thats one step closer!


    I wonder if baton's would be added? as far as I know now I think OPEN CARRY of a baton is NOT LEGAL. Because it's like a switch blade knife? I do not know, do not qoute me..
    A baton is nothing like a switchblade knife (Which can be carried openly if you engrave "Not for sale" on it). What you're thinking of is an ASP which is also legal, or a Spring stick which is not legal to conceal but can be carried OC.

    There is no prohibition to carrying a baton OC or CC...you can carry a 12" knife CC as long as it is not one of the prohibited classes (Dirk, Dagger, Switchblade knife, Bowie Knife, Etc)
    There is no blade length restriction.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    Great! Just when I thought that I had finally drilled "CHP" into the head of everyone I know. . .
    Yeah, but now you can get one of those cool CWP badges! j/k!

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    Know the best part? Fairfax County won't even have to print up new signs to post at the courthouse!
    Last edited by nova; 01-14-2011 at 08:31 PM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm not so sure it qualifies as P4P Longwatch. It doesn't give any special privileges over OC.

    I can carry anything I want Openly. This is like the Restaurant bill. It equalizes what OC Vs. CC can do.

    I had a CWP and carried a 9" 20 ga from time to time.
    Careful Peter, talking about shotties! Oh wait, this is not long gun open carry, it is short gun concealed carry!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Careful Peter, talking about shotties! Oh wait, this is not long gun open carry, it is short gun concealed carry!
    I was talking about a concealed shorty and it was when I had a CWP...but even now I almost always have a long gun, either rifle or shotgun in the truck or car.

    I rarely go anywhere that has a "No Loaded Rifle or Shotgun in the vehicle ordnance" except Richmond and the fine is less than a parking ticket, so I ignore it there.

    The shorty is legal (I don't have the 20 anymore, I have a 12 now) and I still carry it openly once in a while.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    I wonder if the change will be a revenue generator too? They could state that the CHP is no longer valid so one must renew within a year for a nominal fee to update the piece of paper.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    except Richmond and the fine is less than a parking ticket, so I ignore it there.

    ?????!
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    ?????!
    Richmond has a no loaded long guns in vehicles ordnance.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Richmond has a no loaded long guns in vehicles ordnance.
    REALLY !! "ordnance"


    –noun
    1. cannon or artillery.
    2. military weapons with their equipment, ammunition, etc.
    3. the branch of an army that procures, stores, and issues, weapons, munitions, and combat vehicles and maintains arsenals for their development and testing.
    Last edited by nuc65; 01-15-2011 at 09:36 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    REALLY !! "ordnance"


    –noun
    1. cannon or artillery.
    2. military weapons with their equipment, ammunition, etc.
    3. the branch of an army that procures, stores, and issues, weapons, munitions, and combat vehicles and maintains arsenals for their development and testing.
    Geeze, I thought Master Doug was dead! He's just jumping from body to body
    Last edited by peter nap; 01-15-2011 at 11:07 PM.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Richmond has a no loaded long guns in vehicles ordnance.
    I had no idea.

    Why is it not pre-empted?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    I had no idea.

    Why is it not pre-empted?
    It's in compliance with the statute so preemption doesn't apply. I don't remember the specific statute, but I think it is one of the hunting prohibitions.
    Like there's a lot to hunt in Richmond.

    The worst part is that they've added their own definition of "Loaded" to include any ammunition attached to the gun in any manner. That includes side saddles and stock bands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    I had no idea.

    Why is it not pre-empted?
    Preemption says that localities can't enact regulations other than those specifically authorized by statute. This one is specifically authorized by § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.

    "The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. [...]"
    Last edited by Tosta Dojen; 01-16-2011 at 08:02 AM. Reason: fixed link

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Thanks peter nap & Tosta Dojen.

    I'm not much of a hunter (or much of a visitor to Richmond). It's a shame (IMO) that a law with its origins in hunting can impact a gun driving through Richmond.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Thanks peter nap & Tosta Dojen.

    I'm not much of a hunter (or much of a visitor to Richmond). It's a shame (IMO) that a law with its origins in hunting can impact a gun driving through Richmond.
    Unfortunately, the law only "hints" that it is related to hunting, by requiring notification to the DGIF.

    IANAL, but I suspect if the law were a little more explicit that it were meant to be a hunting regulation, AND if you were to get charged with such a violation in a jurisdiction that did not allow hunting, then you MIGHT be able to convince a judge that it shouldn't apply... but as it is now, I wouldn't even think about trying that.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Unfortunately, the law only "hints" that it is related to hunting, by requiring notification to the DGIF.

    IANAL, but I suspect if the law were a little more explicit that it were meant to be a hunting regulation, AND if you were to get charged with such a violation in a jurisdiction that did not allow hunting, then you MIGHT be able to convince a judge that it shouldn't apply... but as it is now, I wouldn't even think about trying that.

    TFred
    It's an annoyance TFred but since it's a minor thing and so rarely enforced, it gets pushed back on the agenda.
    Right now, there are bigger fish to fry. Maybe next year.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I have been thinking about this bill. It would be so much simpler if we had constitutional carry as well as pre-emption for all cities, counties, towns, agencies and departments.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I have been thinking about this bill. It would be so much simpler if we had constitutional carry as well as pre-emption for all cities, counties, towns, agencies and departments.
    I like the way you think but I think another election cycle is needed before the legislators will be able to understand your cleansing logic. :-)

    I am all for the CWP conversion. I have some knives that I would like to carry but are awkward to open carry. I would also like them to get rid of any definition of verbotten knives! Who cares if I carry a Bowie knife or one the exact same length? I wouldn't mind having an auto switch blade. Also whenever I go on school property I have to swap out the knife I carry to fit within the less than 3" category. Like a criminal is going to obey that law!!! (Whoops, silly me, I have to go get a smaller knife to kill these people!)

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