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Thread: Guide in workplace fo active shooter

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Guide in workplace fo active shooter

    http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf

    http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_pocket_card.pdf

    Received this though work email. Since I can't have a gun at work I can hold up the pocket guide to deflect the rounds.

    Reading is making me sick. Their advice is what I would expect from big Sis at DHS. As good as duck and cover.
    Last edited by Venator; 01-14-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Funny how they tell you to improvise weapons to take down a shooter. Why not let you legally carry one instead? Nice to see they admit sometimes there is no choice but to use a weapon to defend yourself.

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    This is the only reason that they make small guns ya know.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Funny how they tell you to improvise weapons to take down a shooter. Why not let you legally carry one instead? Nice to see they admit sometimes there is no choice but to use a weapon to defend yourself.
    I'm masterful at office rubber band slinging. I can hit a 2" target at 20'!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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  5. #5
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Throw items at the shooter!

    let me see, paper clips, paper sheets, in or out boxes, computer screen, chair, and of course lets not forget the desk!

    it would be like Wack the MOLE

    throw the paper clips and duck, throw sheets of paper and duck! Throw the in box, and duck! Throw the desk, whoops you are screwed! no place to duck!

    he is the wacker you are the MOLE!
    Last edited by Onnie; 01-15-2011 at 12:40 AM.
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    Throw things at 950 fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Throw things at 950 fps.
    +1
    A jacketed hollow point is far more persuasive than throwing a stapler.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    +1
    A jacketed hollow point is far more persuasive than throwing a stapler.


    Although... a stapler at 950 fps certainly has potential.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    "Active shooter situations are unpredictable and evolve quickly. Typically, the immediate deployment of law enforcement is required to stop the shooting and mitigate harm to victims.
    Because active shooter situations are often over within 10 to 15 minutes, before law enforcement arrives on the scene, individuals must be prepared both mentally and physically to deal with an active shooter situation."

    Let me get this straight, law enforcement is required to stop something that is over before they get there.
    10 to fifteen minutes is an awful long time to throw staplers. I need to start hoarding office supplies.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    "Active shooter situations are unpredictable and evolve quickly. Typically, the immediate deployment of law enforcement is required to stop the shooting and mitigate harm to victims.
    Because active shooter situations are often over within 10 to 15 minutes, before law enforcement arrives on the scene, individuals must be prepared both mentally and physically to deal with an active shooter situation."

    Let me get this straight, law enforcement is required to stop something that is over before they get there.
    10 to fifteen minutes is an awful long time to throw staplers. I need to start hoarding office supplies.
    Too bad at both Virginia Tech and Columbine the cops showed up while shooting was still ongoing, and simply waited for the wanna-be god-mode-ers to kill themselves before actually entering the buildings. Unlike a citizen with nothing between a madman and his own demise, excessively-armed and overtrained SWAT-ninjas are, apparently, far too terrified to actually think about stopping a shooting in progress. Unless they have time to set the snipers up, and can actually get a shot.

    And in Arizona, citizens stopped the shooting. COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 02:09 AM.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Too bad at both Virginia Tech and Columbine the cops showed up while shooting was still ongoing, and simply waited for the wanna-be god-mode-ers to kill themselves before actually entering the buildings. Unlike a citizen with nothing between a madman and his own demise, excessively-armed and overtrained SWAT-ninjas are, apparently, far too terrified to actually think about stopping a shooting in progress. Unless they have time to set the snipers up, and can actually get a shot.

    And in Arizona, citizens stopped the shooting. Cops are less than useless. Our reliance on them is a fatal handicap on a routine basis.
    The whole active shooter concept of acting now rather than waiting and then acting is a result of the Columbine. Yes, prior to Columbine with an active shooter, law enforcement responds, establishes a perimeter and waits for SWAT and negotiator. As a result of Columbine, now law enforcement responds and goes in, be that one, two or a small group of officers.
    While I have not looked at the DHS brochure, it sounds like it advocates active resistance from the potential hostages/victims as opposed to passivity or compliance.
    And as for your comment that Cops are useless; nice way to cast stones at those who at times go to the grave serving and protecting the "sheep". Cops and service members are the sheepdogs protecting the flock, COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
    Last edited by warrior1978; 01-15-2011 at 01:54 PM. Reason: brainfart

  13. #13
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is the only reason that they make small guns ya know.

    +1

    Rather lose my job than my life.

    Even a gun left in your vehicle is better than the one on a LEO's hip when he is several minutes away.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior1978 View Post
    The whole active shooter concept of acting now rather than waiting and then acting is a result of the Columbine. Yes, prior to Columbine with an active shooter, law enforcement responds, establishes a perimeter and waits for SWAT and negotiator. As a result of Columbine, now law enforcement responds and goes in, be that one, two or a small group of officers.
    While I have not looked at the DHS brochure, it sounds like it advocates active resistance from the potential hostages/victims as opposed to passivity or compliance.
    And as for your comment that Cops are useless; nice way to cast stones at those who at times go to the grave serving and protecting the "sheep". Cops and service members are the sheppards protecting the flock, not some joe shmoe who stockpiles ammunition, never spent a day in a uniform and judges those who do serve.
    There is no duty for a cop to protect anyone. That has been ruled by the courts.

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    There is no duty for a cop to protect anyone. You all do it for a buck and good benefits. Meanwhile you routinely break laws get away with it, actively trash the constitution, rob people for breaking some traffic law designed to bait people, and otherwise behave like a bunch of jack booted thugs.
    Wow. Way to stay classy, Stainless

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior1978 View Post
    The whole active shooter concept of acting now rather than waiting and then acting is a result of the Columbine. Yes, prior to Columbine with an active shooter, law enforcement responds, establishes a perimeter and waits for SWAT and negotiator. As a result of Columbine, now law enforcement responds and goes in, be that one, two or a small group of officers.
    While I have not looked at the DHS brochure, it sounds like it advocates active resistance from the potential hostages/victims as opposed to passivity or compliance.
    And as for your comment that Cops are useless; nice way to cast stones at those who at times go to the grave serving and protecting the "sheep". Cops and service members are the sheppards protecting the flock, not some joe shmoe who stockpiles ammunition, never spent a day in a uniform and judges those who do serve.
    Nonsense. V-tech happened AFTER Columbine. And the cops did the same thing. They might SAY they've changed tactics, as a form of bureaucratic self-justification.... But the proof is in the pudding.

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    It wasn't anywhere near a personal attack. He shot first by making statements like "some joe schmoe who stockpiles..." So I returned the sentiment.

    Why would anyone believe that I had made a personal attack, that in the same paragraph, left an open invitation to dinner?
    Last edited by stainless1911; 01-15-2011 at 12:58 PM.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior1978 View Post
    And as for your comment that Cops are useless; nice way to cast stones at those who at times go to the grave serving and protecting the "sheep". Cops and service members are the sheppards protecting the flock, not some joe shmoe who stockpiles ammunition, never spent a day in a uniform and judges those who do serve.
    Oh, and as for this, trivial research shows that in major cities like New York, Philly, Chicago, etc., the death rates (while on duty) for police are lower than the homicide rates for the general populace. I believe I've cited to authority on this point in the past. That's right, if you're a citizen in Philly, you're more likely to be murdered than a cop is to die in a car accident on his way to the donut shop.

    So, nonsense.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 12:58 PM.

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    BTW, the police are not shepherds . They are sheepdogs, as are we. There is only one Shepperd. Go re read the article.

    http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    You and I were basically called sheep and you accuse Stainless of a personal attack???


    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Wow. Way to stay classy, Stainless

    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Oh, and as for this, trivial research shows that in major cities like New York, Philly, Chicago, etc., the death rates (while on duty) for police are lower than the homicide rates for the general populace. I believe I've cited to authority on this point in the past. That's right, if you're a citizen in Philly, you're more likely to be murdered than a cop is to die in a car accident on his way to the donut shop.

    So, nonsense.
    So what are you saying? Prior to 9/11, statistically a service member was more likely to killed by just about anything but actual combat.

    Those who serve be that military, law enforcement and fire fighers are patriots. Many other "patriots" are better described by Mark Twain when he said ""Patriot: The person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about" [Mark Twain]

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is the only reason that they make small guns ya know.
    +1
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    You and I were basically called sheep and you accuse Stainless of a personal attack???
    I would guess 98% of the people police officers interact with are sheep. Most officers do not interact with citizens who provide for their own proctection by either concealing or open carrying a firearm. So is the officers statement that he protects "sheep" acurate? 98% of the time, yes. So I took no offense to that statement because I am not a sheep, and neither are most users of this site.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I realize this is a bit off topic but ...

    The following is a personal perspective... an opinion if you will...

    I am not a sheep for I do not mill around with the flock with my attention on fitting in with the flock.

    I am not a wolf for I do not prey on the sheep.

    I am not a sheepdog for I do not have the responsibility or desire to control or protect the sheep... nor do I have any wish to fight the wolf.

    The word "wolf" is an accurate term for predatory criminals so I have no problem with that term.

    I am a stray dog... I am warily friendly to the sheep and I avoid the wolf as I fend for myself yet I will fiercely fight to protect those I love... from both wolf and sheep.

    That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend themselves from the "wolf".

    And the word "sheepdog" sounds so noble and nice... to be someone who protects the weak and innocent... but honestly look at what a "sheepdog" actually does with the "sheep" entrusted to it... it is the "sheepdogs" job to control the sheep in return for the illusion of the flock being protected while the dog's master does other, more important, things.

    My job is to maintain control of my own ability to protect myself and those I care about... and in order to do that I carry a gun. I might come to the aid of an innocent person because my morals and ethics require helping those in danger but carrying a gun does not make it my job to help others... therefor as a private citizen I am not now, never have been, and never will be a "sheepdog".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    At work i would just use what is at my reach, piece of pipe, my crane with a 3 thousand pound magnet attached, etc.
    Whatever it takes to protect myself or others....

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