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Big Rapids Violation

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
This thread got me searching local library websites. Flint, grand blanc, oxford, lake Orion, lapeer...none had any violations posted.

Port Huron however (saint Clair county librarys) have this listed under prohibited conduct/items.

3. Possession or use of firearms and other weapons for the purpose of causing physical harm
I suppose that possession without such purpose would be ok?

http://www.sccl.lib.mi.us/hdqrtrs/policies.html

An information packet was sent to the city staff (chief, council, mayor, attorney) about a week and a half ago.
 

Bearhawk

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
41
Location
Gun Plain Twp, MI (gotta love that name)
Ransom District Library in Plainwell, Allegan County in violation

Reading this thread got me to look at the policies at my local library. I was shocked to find "Patrons are not permitted to engage in the following behaviors on Library property:
* Carrying a weapon in the Library unless carried by an officer on duty

Well, I hope you don't mind me plagiarizing a bit but I used parts of the letter to Big Rapids but modified it as I am not officially with MOC but I love what you guys are doing for the cause of freedom. Seeing the need to make a wrong right below is what I sent:
---------------------------
Ransom District Library
180 S. Sherwood Ave
Plainwell, MI 49080

Dear Katie Bell Moore:

As a local citizen, I am inquiring about the firearm ban in your library. My inquiry is regarding your unlawful prohibition of firearms by law abiding citizens. It is my hope that you just don't realize that your policy 12 is in direct violation of state laws and similar policies by other libraries have been shown in court that they violate citizen's rights and are not tolerated. Your policy is preempted by state law. The specific policy that is in violation is stated as follows:

Patrons are not permitted to engage in the following behaviors on Library property:

* Carrying a weapon in the Library unless carried by an officer on duty

As you may know in 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ln...g.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-123-1102) which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

In fact the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled on this in City of Ferndale vs. MCRGO’s. This case involved a local library’s ban on firearms. The court decided that the library could not ban firearms as they were a part of a local government. Below are some excerpts from the decision.

THE MICHIGAN COURT OF APPEALS CONCLUDED:
April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237

In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

Therefore it has been decided in the courts and by statute that a public library cannot ban firearms. Therefore, I am asking you to advise your staff on this issue and if needed to remove any signage banning firearms from your libraries.

I ask that you respond with your compliance within 5 business days. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

With all due respect,
My name
Gun Plain Twp
---------------------

I will post any response. I might need your help if they refuse. If refused I will also contact MCRGO

http://www.ransomlibrary.org/ransom/policies.asp#Policy No. 12
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
Good job! I have done the same in the libraries i frequent... South Haven and my county Library... South Haven had to make some changes... but all it took was a letter such as this one to get them moving in the right direction.
 

aadvark

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,597
Location
, ,
I would like to take this Oppurtunity to Thank Everyone for all of their Support on this Issue!

Local Libraries, be they: Local Authorities, Components of Cities, Components of Counties, Components of TownShips, or otherwise; are NOT Allowed to Violate Michigan Law!

Michigan Laws 123.1100 through 123.1105 Superceed and Preempt Inconsistent Laws Enacted or Enforced by any such Local Authorities, Components of Cities, Components of Counties, Components of TownShips, or otherwise.

I will Write them Myself, concerning this Issue.

Link to Attachment Regarding Policies for Personnel Conduct on Big Rapids City Library Property: http://www.bigrapids.lib.mi.us/Rules_Of_Behavior.aspx
 
Last edited:

jeremy05

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
426
Location
Arizona, ,
If you have the time and money do this.

1. Get a lawyer, and goto the library.

2. Wait for the Cops

3.

4. Profit
 

aadvark

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,597
Location
, ,
I do not need to make my Point that way, as, there are better ways to make a Point, Legally Speaking...

Written Correspondence, which is Assertive, but NOT Aggressive, Services my Intiatives well.
 

ElectricianLU58

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
228
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
if the local government will not concede their point, i have no problem with hitting them in the wallet. one would obviously have to have deep pockets or a lawyer in the family to be able to afford such recourse. the vast majority of us could not afford this strategy.

when it comes down to it, these cities are just not conceding. they are still fighting open carry.

when you show them the laws and they still do not want to concede, it is time to break them. i love libraries and parks and police... but maybe they need to lose a few years of their library budget or police budget to get them to follow the law. ferndale was a best case scenario. if all the cities that are still fighting open carry get cut off at the knees, in the same way as ferndale, things would get better faster.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
if the local government will not concede their point, i have no problem with hitting them in the wallet. one would obviously have to have deep pockets or a lawyer in the family to be able to afford such recourse. the vast majority of us could not afford this strategy.

when it comes down to it, these cities are just not conceding. they are still fighting open carry.

when you show them the laws and they still do not want to concede, it is time to break them. i love libraries and parks and police... but maybe they need to lose a few years of their library budget or police budget to get them to follow the law. ferndale was a best case scenario. if all the cities that are still fighting open carry get cut off at the knees, in the same way as ferndale, things would get better faster.

+1,000 I wish I could do this in Waterford, Isn't money the American way? Hopefully, my state representative will be able to clear this up.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
if the local government will not concede their point, i have no problem with hitting them in the wallet. one would obviously have to have deep pockets or a lawyer in the family to be able to afford such recourse. the vast majority of us could not afford this strategy.

when it comes down to it, these cities are just not conceding. they are still fighting open carry.

when you show them the laws and they still do not want to concede, it is time to break them. i love libraries and parks and police... but maybe they need to lose a few years of their library budget or police budget to get them to follow the law. ferndale was a best case scenario. if all the cities that are still fighting open carry get cut off at the knees, in the same way as ferndale, things would get better faster.
There was a time when gentle guidance to show that ordinances were illegal with letters, attending meetings, and magnanimously not bringing forth legitimate law suits was appropriate.

Some municipalities took a look, realized their ordinances were illegal, and fixed them. However, other municipalities fought, and continue to fight complying with the law, tooth and nail.... just as any guilty common criminal fights his/her conviction.

I have no doubt that every municipality in the entire State knows their ordinances are either legal or illegal. Some might take it upon themselves to do the right thing... some might need to be reminded that the change is needed... and some will fight it tooth and nail.

I am beginning to believe that it is time to stop being the nice guy... and when a person has legal recourse... to treat any and all municipalities that ignore, refuse to change, or purposefully write confusing changes, like the criminals they are and, if at all possible, sue the municipality into bankruptcy.

Yes, I know that really only financially hurts the residents of that city or township and causes cuts in services.... but if it were to happen a couple of times rest assured there would be residents in every city or township taking a look at ordinances because they would not want their own little neck of the woods bankrupted too.
 
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