Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Open carry and places that serve alcohol

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque, ,
    Posts
    34

    Open carry and places that serve alcohol

    I will be visiting Tombstone next month. Open carry is allowed as long as I do not enter a place that serves or sells alcohol ? Also have a NM CHL so I can carry concealed in places that serve and sell alcohol ? Thanks in advance for info- clarification.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    210
    Basically correct.

    Places that sell but don't serve alcohol (such as grocery stores, convenience stores, and liquor stores) are fine for open carry unless otherwise posted.

  3. #3
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    839
    Quote Originally Posted by NMGlock26 View Post
    I will be visiting Tombstone next month. Open carry is allowed as long as I do not enter a place that serves or sells alcohol ? Also have a NM CHL so I can carry concealed in places that serve and sell alcohol ? Thanks in advance for info- clarification.
    Anyone with a CCW permit, regardless of the state of issue, may carry a gun into a place that serves alcohol for on premise consumption, providing:
    (1). The place is not posted "no firearms."
    (2). You carry discreetly (the evil "concealed" in anti-rights lingo).
    (3). You don't consume alcohol.

    Open carry is forbidden where alcohol is served (for consumption) and discreet carry by non permit holders is forbidden in places where alcohol is served (for consumption).

    The "no firearms" sign does NOT have be posted at the door. The law requires it be near the liquor license.

    Tombstone is notoriously anti-gun, so expect to see "no firearms" signs everywhere, including business that don't serve alcohol. They don't want your business. Spend your money elsewhere.

    Fred

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque, ,
    Posts
    34

    Tombstone anti-gun

    The town that made history with the gun fight at the OK corral and performs reenactments of the famous shoot out is anti gun ? Wow that figures. Not. As for those "no firearm signs" we have lots of them here in New Mexico although I hear allot of people simply do not see them.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    210
    Wasn't the shootout at the OK corral at least partially the result of the Earps trying to enforce Tombstone's law against carrying guns in town?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jefferson City, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by JesseL View Post
    Wasn't the shootout at the OK corral at least partially the result of the Earps trying to enforce Tombstone's law against carrying guns in town?
    Yes it was. Or at least it was the excuse used to go out and settle a personal score they had with that cowboy faction.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,615
    There are only 13 States where it there are Restricitions on Carrying a Firearm into any Place that Sells Alcohol for Consumption on-Premises, and of those States, only 6 of them have NO Exceptions for Civilian Personnel as to The Application of that Law.

    Addtionally, there is only 1 State, Arkansas, which Prohibits The Loaded Carry or Unloaded Carry, whether Openly or Concealed, whether The Person is Licensed to do so or not, where Alcohol or Alcoholic Beverages are Present, regardless of whether or not such Consumption is Intendend to take Place either on-Premises or off-Premises.

    Alcohol, or its Presence, is not a Problem in any other of The 37 States in Relation to Firearm Laws.

    *** Intereseting Facts ***
    1 State: Vermont; has NO Restricitons at all due to its Status as a Constitutional Carry State.
    1 State: Wisconsin; ONLY Prohibits Handguns, but not LongGuns, from The Premises.
    2 States: New Mexico AND South Carolina; make it a Felony to Carry a Firearm in any Place where Alcohol is Served or Consumed, regardless of whether or not that Service or Consumption is Intended to be for on-Premises or off-Premises Purposes, however; in every other of The 13 States herein mentioned, Violation of that States' Alcohol-Firearm Law can only Result in a Misdemeanor Charge.
    2 States: Kentucky AND South Dakota; Require that Firearms remain Unloaded while on Premises.
    3 States: Montana, Wyoming, AND Michigan; Require that Firearms remain Openly Carried while on Premises.
    4 States: Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, AND Texas; Specifically Require Firearms, namely Pistols, Remain Concealed, off of The Authoirty of The Applicable Pistol Permit of The State whereupon Named, or as for Reciprocity, while on Premises.
    4 States: Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, AND Ohio; have Legislation Filed this Session, for 2011, to Repeal, Partially or in Full, any such Restrictions concerning Alcohol and Firearms as they Pertain to each State herein Named.

    In my State: Georgia; Firearms and Alcohol Mix, and a Person can Legally Drink Alcohol while Armed, provided; they may not Shoot unless in Self-Defense. The only Close-Range Exception lies in Fact that in Order to Enter into any Establishment that is a Bona-Fide Bar, which Derives over 50% of its Revenue from Alcohol Service, one needs to have BOTH a Georgia Weapons Carry License, or its Equivalent, and Permission to Enter, Respectfully.
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-18-2011 at 08:50 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    897
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    There are only 13 States where it there are Restricitions on Carrying a Firearm into any Place that Sells Alcohol for Consumption on-Premises, and of those States, only 6 of them have NO Exceptions for Civilian Personnel as to The Application of that Law.


    4 States: Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, AND Texas; Specifically Require Firearms, namely Pistols, Remain Concealed, off of The Authority of The Applicable Pistol Permit of The State whereupon Named, or as for Reciprocity, while on Premises.
    Additional information on Texas.

    Currently OC is almost completely outlawed .

    Texas prohibits pistols in all places of business that sell alcohol, excepting a CHL holder in some circumstances(the 51% placard business is one of those prohibitions). Rifles and shotguns are NOT prohibited, UNLESS the owner/manager of an establishment objects, this INCLUDES those places with a 51% placard.

    Without a CHL, a pistol carried into a place that sells alcohol is a Felony compared to a misdemeanor in most other locations.
    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 01-18-2011 at 08:52 PM.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,322
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Addtionally, there is only 1 State, Arkansas, which Prohibits The Loaded Carry or Unloaded Carry, whether Openly or Concealed, whether The Person is Licensed to do so or not, where Alcohol or Alcoholic Beverages are Present, regardless of whether or not such Consumption is Intendend to take Place either on-Premises or off-Premises.
    Your source is out of date. Arkansas has had legal restaurant carry for several years now. It was never illegal in Arkansas to carry where alcohol was sold but not served. It was absolutely not the case that it was illegal to carry where alcohol was "present".

    Specifically (note the portion I highlighted):
    5-73-306. Prohibited places.
    No license to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to this subchapter
    authorizes any person to carry a concealed handgun into:
    (12) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in 3-
    9-402, licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the
    premises;
    (13) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in 3-
    9-402, where beer or light wine is consumed on the premises;
    Source.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 01-18-2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Added source.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Tombstone is notoriously anti-gun, so expect to see "no firearms" signs everywhere, including business that don't serve alcohol. They don't want your business. Spend your money elsewhere.

    Fred
    Fred,

    I have to disagree with you here....I have carried 15 or 20 times in Tombstone and have never had an issue or anything but positive interaction with the local merchants.


    Thanks for the work the AZCDL does, you guys do us proud.

    Steve
    Last edited by .45acp; 01-19-2011 at 02:12 PM.
    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

  11. #11
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,960
    The Birdcage makes you check your gun in the lobby entrance. None of the saloons allow guns (concealed or otherwise). Six Gun City used to che k 'em at the gate but that whole place burned down 'bout a month ago. Most people check their guns in 'Smoke Signals', a tobacco shop in Allen St. There's no charge. No loaded guns in Spangenburgs gun shop or any restaurant that sells alcohol. Big Nose Kates will often check you at the door.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    The Birdcage makes you check your gun in the lobby entrance. None of the saloons allow guns (concealed or otherwise). Six Gun City used to che k 'em at the gate but that whole place burned down 'bout a month ago. Most people check their guns in 'Smoke Signals', a tobacco shop in Allen St. There's no charge. No loaded guns in Spangenburgs gun shop or any restaurant that sells alcohol. Big Nose Kates will often check you at the door.
    Yeah, I have seen the signs No Firearm, so I do not patronize the restaurants that have em. There is a place to the north of Fremont on the west end of town that has decent food and they do not have an issue with OC.

    Spangenburgs, been in there once about two years ago, that was enough for me.

    Steve
    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    57
    Fred,

    Can you provide the AZ statute that says one cannot open carry into a place that servers alcohol? I can only find 4-229 which allows for a concealed weapon by a permit holder, but nothing about open carry. I'm sure it exists, just haven't been able to find it when I've read 4 and 13.

    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Anyone with a CCW permit, regardless of the state of issue, may carry a gun into a place that serves alcohol for on premise consumption, providing:
    (1). The place is not posted "no firearms."
    (2). You carry discreetly (the evil "concealed" in anti-rights lingo).
    (3). You don't consume alcohol.

    Open carry is forbidden where alcohol is served (for consumption) and discreet carry by non permit holders is forbidden in places where alcohol is served (for consumption).

    The "no firearms" sign does NOT have be posted at the door. The law requires it be near the liquor license.

    Tombstone is notoriously anti-gun, so expect to see "no firearms" signs everywhere, including business that don't serve alcohol. They don't want your business. Spend your money elsewhere.

    Fred

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    57
    I found the statute, buried in section 4.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    660
    Quote Originally Posted by coorsleftfield View Post
    Fred,

    Can you provide the AZ statute that says one cannot open carry into a place that servers alcohol? I can only find 4-229 which allows for a concealed weapon by a permit holder, but nothing about open carry. I'm sure it exists, just haven't been able to find it when I've read 4 and 13.
    I'm not Fred, but you already posted the statute. Weapons are not allowed at an establishment that carries alcohol.
    ARS 4-244

    29. For any person other than a peace officer or a member of a sheriff's volunteer posse while on duty who has received firearms training that is approved by the Arizona peace officer standards and training board, the licensee or an employee of the licensee acting with the permission of the licensee to be in possession of a firearm while on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer. This paragraph shall not be construed to include a situation in which a person is on licensed premises for a limited time in order to seek emergency aid and such person does not buy, receive, consume or possess spirituous liquor. This paragraph shall not apply to:
    (a) Hotel or motel guest room accommodations.
    (b) The exhibition or display of a firearm in conjunction with a meeting, show, class or similar event.
    (c) A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 who carries a concealed handgun on the licensed premises of any on-sale retailer that has not posted a notice pursuant to section 4-229.
    Therefore if weapons are prohibited with the exception pursuant to 4-229:

    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:
    Thus 4-229 provides the only allowable method of carry.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,615
    KBCraig:

    My Arkansas Alcohol-related Post is in Reference to Arkansas Code 5-73-120(d)(1), which provides:

    Any Person who Carries a Weapon into an Establishment that Sells Alcoholic Beverages is Guilty of a Misdemeanor and Subject to a Fine of not more than Two Thousand Five Hundred Dollars [$2,500] or Imprisonment for not more than One [1] Year, or both.

    aadvark

    *** However, Arkansas Code 5-73-120(d)(1) has a Different set of Laws and Places Off-Limits, Generally under Sub-Chapter 1 of Chapter 73 than what is otherwise Mentioned under Sub-Chapter 4 of Chapter 73 of Arkansas Code. ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,322
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    *** However, Arkansas Code 5-73-120(d)(1) has a Different set of Laws and Places Off-Limits, Generally under Sub-Chapter 1 of Chapter 73 than what is otherwise Mentioned under Sub-Chapter 4 of Chapter 73 of Arkansas Code. ***
    I'm sorry, I have no idea what you just said.

    Can you clarify so that I can understand, with a specific cite to Arkansas Code? (Preferably with a link, but it's okay if you just cite a specific section of the code.)

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,058
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    There are only 13 States where it there are Restricitions on Carrying a Firearm into any Place that Sells Alcohol for Consumption on-Premises, and of those States, only 6 of them have NO Exceptions for Civilian Personnel as to The Application of that Law.

    Addtionally, there is only 1 State, Arkansas, which Prohibits The Loaded Carry or Unloaded Carry, whether Openly or Concealed, whether The Person is Licensed to do so or not, where Alcohol or Alcoholic Beverages are Present, regardless of whether or not such Consumption is Intendend to take Place either on-Premises or off-Premises.

    Alcohol, or its Presence, is not a Problem in any other of The 37 States in Relation to Firearm Laws.

    *** Intereseting Facts ***
    1 State: Vermont; has NO Restricitons at all due to its Status as a Constitutional Carry State.
    1 State: Wisconsin; ONLY Prohibits Handguns, but not LongGuns, from The Premises.
    2 States: New Mexico AND South Carolina; make it a Felony to Carry a Firearm in any Place where Alcohol is Served or Consumed, regardless of whether or not that Service or Consumption is Intended to be for on-Premises or off-Premises Purposes, however; in every other of The 13 States herein mentioned, Violation of that States' Alcohol-Firearm Law can only Result in a Misdemeanor Charge.
    2 States: Kentucky AND South Dakota; Require that Firearms remain Unloaded while on Premises.
    3 States: Montana, Wyoming, AND Michigan; Require that Firearms remain Openly Carried while on Premises.
    4 States: Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, AND Texas; Specifically Require Firearms, namely Pistols, Remain Concealed, off of The Authoirty of The Applicable Pistol Permit of The State whereupon Named, or as for Reciprocity, while on Premises.
    4 States: Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, AND Ohio; have Legislation Filed this Session, for 2011, to Repeal, Partially or in Full, any such Restrictions concerning Alcohol and Firearms as they Pertain to each State herein Named.

    In my State: Georgia; Firearms and Alcohol Mix, and a Person can Legally Drink Alcohol while Armed, provided; they may not Shoot unless in Self-Defense. The only Close-Range Exception lies in Fact that in Order to Enter into any Establishment that is a Bona-Fide Bar, which Derives over 50% of its Revenue from Alcohol Service, one needs to have BOTH a Georgia Weapons Carry License, or its Equivalent, and Permission to Enter, Respectfully.
    Regarding Kentucky the restriction on carry that you provide is only correct for a "bar". KRS 244.125 provides that the restriction does not apply to bona fide restaurants, which have dining facilities for more than 50 people and receive less than 50% of their gross income from alcohol sales. Thus unloaded carry of a firearm is only required in a place that most would consider a dedicated bar.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/244-00/125.PDF

    ** I believe that the restriction which forces one to carry openly in Michigan with a CPL (concealed pistol license) is only applicable to a "bar", thus one may carry concealed or openly with a CPL in Michigan in restaurants. I do not readily know their codes so it will take some digging for me to find this if necessary.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 01-25-2011 at 12:02 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque, ,
    Posts
    34
    The only "check" I do is a press check and to make sure my pistol is in my control at all times. Checking pistols at the door is a bad idea. It increases the chance of a ND by people that are not well trained.

  20. #20
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    839
    Quote Originally Posted by NMGlock26 View Post
    The only "check" I do is a press check
    What? No magazine check after the chamber check?

    Fred

  21. #21
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,069

    Deja Vu

    Quote Originally Posted by coorsleftfield View Post
    I found the statute, buried in section 4.
    Wow, Coorsleftfield, the was almost the same as my first post here. Great minds think alike.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-establishment

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •