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Thread: Here we are again in Orange County, CA

  1. #1
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    Here we are again in Orange County, CA

    This time I UOC to home depot on beach/chapman and got kicked out by the store manager "DOUG". Unfortunately I forgot my voice recorder this time...

    I came in the store and greeted the workers. they smiled and seemed ok. As I was shopping for stuff, the store manager DOUG came up to me with probably loss prevention and pointed at my hip
    doug: What is that?
    me: what do you think it is? (being tired that people can't recognize a gun when they see one)
    doug: is it a gun?
    me: yes.
    doug: sorry, you can't have guns here. our store policy states so.
    me: are you sure? i checked and home depot has no policy stating it. plus it is perfectly legal for citizens to open carry. what's your name?
    doug: my name is doug, you can call home depot corp and complain all you want but store policy states no gun on premises. I have never seen anyone carrying a gun except law enforcement.
    me: no, home depot supports constitutional rights and i haven't seen a policy saying so. go check your policy hand book. can i buy these things then i'll leave?
    doug: yes. i'll go call up corp.

    So i continued to shop and talk to some home depot workers. they state that no one ever see a citizen walking around UOC... ever and this is their first time seeing anything like this! I try to educate them that UOC is perfectly legal and i was amazed that not a single worker knew!

    doug comes back 3 minutes later.
    doug: no, you have to leave. I just called corp and they said no guns. put down all your stuff and leave.

    so i left and they went out and watched me go to my car. i almost for got to write down his first and last name so i went back to get it.
    me: can you give me your first and last name so i can reference you to corp?
    doug: my name is doug. i am the general manager. leave this premises, or do you want me to call the cops? you are on my property.
    me: fine go ahead, but your last name please?
    doug: ok i'll go call the cops...

    doug walks back in and before he hits the phone, he look back and say "so do you want me to call the cops?"
    me: nah, i'll just leave.

    i'll contact home depot about this and if it is true, then i am going to shop at lowes instead since i UOC there often and nothing like that has happened yet. Actually, home depot on macaurther/fairview gave me no problems as well.

    this got me thinking, some of these uneducated citizens are just astounding. i can see DOUG almost shaking as he approached me watching my gun as if my gun was going to jump out of the holster, load a magazine, then shoot him.

  2. #2
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    Lovely. . . I had a similar experience with a mother and her children in a Rubios in San Marcos. Thankfully I was just about finished when she confronted me and asked me to leave because I was scaring her children. Best part is my seating was against a wall, out of sight of this woman, so the only person who could see my gun was me. The only time she saw the gun was when I was ordering my burrito, so I guess she got the stones to confront me after long deliberation (10 minutes) with her 8 year old children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD5 View Post
    Lovely. . . I had a similar experience with a mother and her children in a Rubios in San Marcos. Thankfully I was just about finished when she confronted me and asked me to leave because I was scaring her children. Best part is my seating was against a wall, out of sight of this woman, so the only person who could see my gun was me. The only time she saw the gun was when I was ordering my burrito, so I guess she got the stones to confront me after long deliberation (10 minutes) with her 8 year old children.
    this lady was a customer? if she was a customer, she has no right. funny because i UOC constantly at IHOP and i get looks, but no one says anything.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    doug: What is that?
    me: what do you think it is? (being tired that people can't recognize a gun when they see one)
    doug: is it a gun?
    me: yes.
    It doesn't matter how tired you are; you represent more than just yourself and your ability to be easily annoyed. Furthermore, the interaction you had with the manager doesn't leave me convinced that another person (say, myself) would have been unable to stay and shop had a better impression been given. Right off the bat you gave him (the dubious California hoplophobe) every reason to question your personality and motives.

    Also, I would have asked him if he is sure whether the policy to which he is referring isn't a policy for employees only. Because, as you might have known, while Home Despot has no such policy for customers, it certainly bans employee carry. Managers at big-box corporate stores routinely seem to confuse the two, but I've personally convinced one manager (at a Best Buy) that such a policy didn't apply to me, I was in violation of no laws, bothering no customers, and a source of potential revenue for his store.

    If you're being spoken to rather than being asked to leave outright, there is always room to sell the winning argument. But you didn't even try! Nor did you just leave upon being questioned. Instead, you did a disservice to the already hopeless cause of gun owners in California by being an easily annoyed smartass and engaging in a yes-no ******* contest.

    No offense and all that. I call it like I see it.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 12:43 AM.

  5. #5
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    i did my research and found that home depot corp policy follows state law regarding guns. so, UOC is allowed at home depot.

    I called up the store manager that kicked me off premises and he said sorry.

    me: hi, i'm the guy that came in with the gun.
    doug: yes, i called the police and the police said that it was legal to carry a gun and the only thing a store manager can do is to check to see if the gun is unloaded.
    me: yes, and california law states that it is legal for citizens to open carry.
    doug: yes, the police told me that. i'm sorry, i didn't know. it was because we got robbed a year ago at gun point and so we are all scared.
    me: ah but criminals would conceal their weapon and not wear the gun in a holster like i did.
    doug: i understand that now. i'm sorry.
    me: yes, so are we good? can i still shop at your store?
    doug: yes, i let all the store managers and employees to be ok with UOC in the future. we won't have this problem again.
    me: i'm glad. we'll i'll continue shopping there then.
    doug: take it easy bud.

    problem solved.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    i did my research and found that home depot corp policy follows state law regarding guns. so, UOC is allowed at home depot.

    I called up the store manager that kicked me off premises and he said sorry.

    me: hi, i'm the guy that came in with the gun.
    doug: yes, i called the police and the police said that it was legal to carry a gun and the only thing a store manager can do is to check to see if the gun is unloaded.
    me: yes, and california law states that it is legal for citizens to open carry.
    doug: yes, the police told me that. i'm sorry, i didn't know. it was because we got robbed a year ago at gun point and so we are all scared.
    me: ah but criminals would conceal their weapon and not wear the gun in a holster like i did.
    doug: i understand that now. i'm sorry.
    me: yes, so are we good? can i still shop at your store?
    doug: yes, i let all the store managers and employees to be ok with UOC in the future. we won't have this problem again.
    me: i'm glad. we'll i'll continue shopping there then.
    doug: take it easy bud.

    problem solved.
    See, now with the right attitude, you could have had this result in the first place.

    With that said, good on you for following up. You've redeemed yourself in my book.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    It doesn't matter how tired you are; you represent more than just yourself and your ability to be easily annoyed. Furthermore, the interaction you had with the manager doesn't leave me convinced that another person (say, myself) would have been unable to stay and shop had a better impression been given. Right off the bat you gave him (the dubious California hoplophobe) every reason to question your personality and motives.

    Also, I would have asked him if he is sure whether the policy to which he is referring isn't a policy for employees only. Because, as you might have known, while Home Despot has no such policy for customers, it certainly bans employee carry. Managers at big-box corporate stores routinely seem to confuse the two, but I've personally convinced one manager (at a Best Buy) that such a policy didn't apply to me, I was in violation of no laws, bothering no customers, and a source of potential revenue for his store.

    If you're being spoken to rather than being asked to leave outright, there is always room to sell the winning argument. But you didn't even try! Nor did you just leave upon being questioned. Instead, you did a disservice to the already hopeless cause of gun owners in California by being an easily annoyed smartass and engaging in a yes-no ******* contest.

    No offense and all that. I call it like I see it.
    i UOC all the time and i'm VERY TIRED of stupid questions "wtf is that" and points at my gun. why can't people say stuff like: "ah i see you carry a gun, sorry but you can't carry a gun here in our store."

    "is that a REAL GUN?" no sherlock, i carry a fake gun around so i can get hassled by LEOs because i love it when they cuff me.

    maybe you don't UOC as much as I do to get questions like these, or maybe you live in a town with an IQ higher than 60... I live in santa ana where people's IQ is about as high as they make a day in an 8 hour shift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    See, now with the right attitude, you could have had this result in the first place.

    With that said, good on you for following up. You've redeemed yourself in my book.
    buddy, i couldn't resolve this issue onsite with doug because he constantly wanted to shoo me away and he has the right to kick customers off store premises if he believes the person is causing a disturbance. i even went back to try to talk to him but he just continuously thinks he is right and he knows home depot code policies. only until i left when he had time to do his research with the police and call up store corps to find out the truth. some people have open minds, others do not... doug only took about 2 other store mangers, ton of digging thru the policy book, and a call to the police station.

    anyway, problem solved. all of us can UOC to home depot and make this store safe for doug and prevent future robberies.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I understand it's frustrating. I get short with idiots in a parking lot all the time. Or, rather, have to remind myself not to be short when I'm armed.

    When one is armed, it behooves that person to let everything slide, and to remain polite, courteous and friendly, unless of course someone needs shooting. Experience has taught this lesson well. A smile and a polite turn of phrase can "disarm" even the most dubious fence-sitter. "Why, yes, it is a gun! It's a 1911! Isn't she pretty? I built her myself! (*SMILE*)"

    And I bet you could have resolved it, had you started off on the right foot. I agree that once you were sarcastic and short with "Doug", your chances of resolving anything during that encounter were essentially nil.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 12:59 AM.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    I live in santa ana where people's IQ is about as high as they make a day in an 8 hour shift.
    Is this really a saying? Because if it is, then I know a lot of people with the world's highest IQ.

    I'd recommend anybody who experiences a manager walk away to call corporate to whip out your phone and call corporate yourself. In xnetc9's situation the manager possibly didn't even call corporate because he thought he was right and didn't want the firearm in the store. Just a thought.

    Also, Marshaul is quite right. If somebody asks you "Is that a GUN?!" then treat them as gun enthusiasts who absolutely love guns and haven't seen one for years. "Why yes sir! This is a glock 22 with night sights, isn't she lovely?" That'd be incredibly disarming to even the most anti of people.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I'd recommend anybody who experiences a manager walk away to call corporate to whip out your phone and call corporate yourself. In xnetc9's situation the manager possibly didn't even call corporate because he thought he was right and didn't want the firearm in the store. Just a thought.
    I don't doubt it for a minute. One of my more amusing OC stories is the occurrence in the Best Buy in Northern Virginia.

    I was browsing for a new phone (POTS), and was approached briskly by a manager from the side. He inquired, "Do you have a concealed carry permit?"

    I responded, eager to fill him with the joy of knowledge, "No, sir! No permit is needed in Virginia to carry a firearm openly."

    To which he informed me, "Well, I just called the police. And they said you do have to have a permit to have a gun."

    I summoned my most bemused, friendly smile, and relaxedly told him, "Nah, no, you didn't. If you had, they would have told you exactly what I just told you: that 'no permit is necessary to carry a firearm openly in the state of Virginia'."

    A look of befuddlement briefly passed over his face, and he said, simply, "Oh. Well, enjoy shopping at Best Buy." And with that, he turned and walked away.

    Immediately after he departed, a gentleman nearby turned to me and (no doubt impressed by my authoritative handling of the managerial encounter ) asked me for advice on which phone to buy. I helped him as best I could, and spent the better part of another half-hour in the store browsing for myself. I ended up buying some phones, and, needless to say, no cops were ever called.

    I'm sure I could have gotten myself kicked out, though, if I had wanted.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 03:25 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Is this really a saying? Because if it is, then I know a lot of people with the world's highest IQ.

    I'd recommend anybody who experiences a manager walk away to call corporate to whip out your phone and call corporate yourself. In xnetc9's situation the manager possibly didn't even call corporate because he thought he was right and didn't want the firearm in the store. Just a thought.

    Also, Marshaul is quite right. If somebody asks you "Is that a GUN?!" then treat them as gun enthusiasts who absolutely love guns and haven't seen one for years. "Why yes sir! This is a glock 22 with night sights, isn't she lovely?" That'd be incredibly disarming to even the most anti of people.
    tried that already. "why yes, its my beretta 92fs"
    some managers i met: "i don't care what it is. we dont want guns here."
    this situation would have different if people approach you one on one. instead this situation involved "security" from loss prevention. these guys do not want to be your friend. they didn't approach you to be friends and have a beer with you after you shop. they came because they do not want you in the store because they themselves are afraid of guns. plain and simple. you UOCers act like this is a happy world full of curious happy sheeple coming up to you and asking for brochures and want to LEARN the ways of UOC. no, the fact is most people in orange county are afraid of guns due to the media and aren't educated or do not want to be educated in the UOC. i see it day in and day out everyday as i UOC. i see ladies walk by and take a quick glance then quickly walk away from me. i see old men look at my gun. my girlfriend UOC everywhere and once had another customer demand that she leave the store because he doesn't want to see a gun. anyway i'm just ranting.

    again, i'm a computer enthusiasts, but i don't come up to a person and say "is that a laptop" while pointing at their obvious laptop. instead i pose a smarter question like "can it run crysis?" "does it run on the newest atom chip?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I don't doubt it for a minute. One of my more amusing OC stories is the occurrence in the Best Buy in Northern Virginia.

    I was browsing for a new phone (POTS), and was approached briskly by a manager from the side. He inquired, "Do you have a concealed carry permit?"

    I responded, eager to fill him with the joy of knowledge, "No, sir! No permit is needed in Virginia to carry a firearm openly."

    To which he informed me, "Well, I just called the police. And they said you do have to have a permit to have a gun."

    I summoned my most bemused, friendly smile, and relaxedly told him, "Nah, no, you didn't. If you had, they would have told you exactly what I just told you: that 'no permit is necessary to carry a firearm openly in the state of Virginia'."

    A look of befuddlement briefly passed over his face, and he said, simply, "Oh. Well, enjoy shopping at Best Buy." And with that, he turned and walked away.

    Immediately after he departed, a gentleman nearby turned to me and (no doubt impressed by my authoritative handling of the managerial encounter ) asked me for advice on which phone to buy. I helped him as best I could, and spent the better part of another half-hour in the store browsing for myself. I ended up buying some phones, and, needless to say, no cops were ever called.

    I'm sure I could have gotten myself kicked out, though, if I had wanted.
    lucky you! i mostly have negative encounters. try coming to orange county. fairfax is quite a ways from here and it seems to be a sparse populated area, unlike orange county. the ONLY good conversation i had about my gun, and smart ones were with workers at IHOP. they actually ask "is that a 9mm or 45?" instead of asking "is that REAL?" they were curious about gun laws and i assured them [fill in brochure information].

    outside of this, people never approach me and ask about it except for managers which often lead to "get out, store policy". some jealous young adults even whisper among their friends "wow look at that guy with the gun. he needs a gun cuz he has a small dick, lol lol" then all their friends laugh. yea buddy, orange county is one mean place.

  14. #14
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Some constructive criticism...

    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    This time I UOC to home depot on beach/chapman and got kicked out by the store manager "DOUG". Unfortunately I forgot my voice recorder this time...
    I came in the store and greeted the workers. they smiled and seemed ok. As I was shopping for stuff, the store manager DOUG came up to me with probably loss prevention and pointed at my hip
    doug: What is that?
    me: what do you think it is? (being tired that people can't recognize a gun when they see one)

    doug: is it a gun?
    me: yes.
    doug: sorry, you can't have guns here. our store policy states so.
    me: are you sure? i checked and home depot has no policy stating it. plus it is perfectly legal for citizens to open carry. what's your name?
    doug: my name is doug, you can call home depot corp and complain all you want but store policy states no gun on premises. I have never seen anyone carrying a gun except law enforcement.
    me: no, home depot supports constitutional rights and i haven't seen a policy saying so. go check your policy hand book. can i buy these things then i'll leave?
    doug: yes. i'll go call up corp.

    ... i can see DOUG almost shaking as he approached me watching my gun as if my gun was going to jump out of the holster, load a magazine, then shoot him.
    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    i did my research and found that home depot corp policy follows state law regarding guns. so, UOC is allowed at home depot.

    I called up the store manager that kicked me off premises and he said sorry.

    problem solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    i UOC all the time and i'm VERY TIRED of stupid questions "wtf is that" and points at my gun. why can't people say stuff like: "ah i see you carry a gun, sorry but you can't carry a gun here in our store."

    "is that a REAL GUN?" no sherlock, i carry a fake gun around so i can get hassled by LEOs because i love it when they cuff me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    tried that already. "why yes, its my beretta 92fs"
    some managers i met: "i don't care what it is. we dont want guns here."
    this situation would have different if people approach you one on one. instead this situation involved "security" from loss prevention. these guys do not want to be your friend. they didn't approach you to be friends and have a beer with you after you shop. they came because they do not want you in the store because they themselves are afraid of guns. plain and simple. you UOCers act like this is a happy world full of curious happy sheeple coming up to you and asking for brochures and want to LEARN the ways of UOC. no, the fact is most people in orange county are afraid of guns due to the media and aren't educated or do not want to be educated in the UOC. i see it day in and day out everyday as i UOC. i see ladies walk by and take a quick glance then quickly walk away from me. i see old men look at my gun. my girlfriend UOC everywhere and once had another customer demand that she leave the store because he doesn't want to see a gun. anyway i'm just ranting.

    again, i'm a computer enthusiasts, but i don't come up to a person and say "is that a laptop" while pointing at their obvious laptop. instead i pose a smarter question like "can it run crysis?" "does it run on the newest atom chip?"
    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    lucky you! i mostly have negative encounters. try coming to orange county. fairfax is quite a ways from here and it seems to be a sparse populated area, unlike orange county. the ONLY good conversation i had about my gun, and smart ones were with workers at IHOP. they actually ask "is that a 9mm or 45?" instead of asking "is that REAL?" they were curious about gun laws and i assured them [fill in brochure information].

    outside of this, people never approach me and ask about it except for managers which often lead to "get out, store policy". some jealous young adults even whisper among their friends "wow look at that guy with the gun. he needs a gun cuz he has a small dick, lol lol" then all their friends laugh. yea buddy, orange county is one mean place.
    I think you've made a few mistakes.

    Primary among them is with attitude and I don't think it has occured to you that people can easily misinterpret your impatience and inapproachability as behavior of someone who is looking for a fight or a reason to use their firearm. Getting snarky with people who have the power to ruin your day is not helpful, and the first words from your mouth to the Home Depot manager were just that.

    If you are approached by a business or property manager and they take issue with the fact that you are armed, please say, "I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of your policy. I will leave right now." And then leave. Go home and write a politely worded letter to the corporate office or the property owner explaining that open carry is not illegal in California and that you will be sure to tell all your friends to avoid their establishment.

    You should not challenge business or property managers/owners on their no guns policy. Do not ask to see the sign or the policy printed on paper or in a manual. If they don't have signs or a written policy, this will encourage them to make one. Again, write the corporate office of the business who claims they have such a policy and let them handle it. It is not your job to correct their employee's misunderstanding. I don't believe it benefits anyone to provoke a call to police to defend your point of view.

    You should not be confrontational with someone who asks "Is that real?", or if they make comments that are typical of anti-gun reactionaries, like infering that you are compensating for some endowment deficiencies. First, you cannot be sure that the question "Is that real?" is legitimate or not. Nearly 90% of urban Californians have never been in the presence of a firearm that wasn't carried by police officers. This is why it is imperative that UOCr's take the time to be ambassadors for the Second Amendment- not just open carry. If their first interaction with someone carrying a firearm begins with you being confrontational and snarky- Guess what they will believe all gun owners are? Second, those who make derisive comments about gun owners will defy education. They have already made up their minds that they are right and no amount of discussion or debate will sway them from their ignorance. Let it go.

    The last thing I will mention is the absense of an active recorder. This is essential equipment, particularly when you are in a largely urban area where this activity isnt supported by meaningful numbers or evidence that the law enforcement in your area understand the law governing our activities. When you holster up, the recorder must be on you and actively recording.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    "what is that?"
    It's a finely crafted personal protection device.

    The only time I've been asked to leave a store (last summer) the manager had to show me the gunbuster sign at close range... It was about the diameter of a pop can, transparent, and waaaay off to the edge of the 4-door-wide automatic entry door. How could someone notice that??

    But I went & left the gun (& groceries) in the car, went back to talk with him, got the business card for the owner, emailed the owner & put the encounter here on OCDO.

    Within a couple days they'd gotten so many emails & calls & so much information pointing out the flaws in their reasoning that they changed their policy.
    I shopped there yesterday, no problems from anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    xnetc9, " i mostly have negative encounters"

    This line, admitted to by you, says a heck of a lot.

    It says to me that from some reason, YOU might be the problem. Could it be your attitude towards others that cause the negative encounters?
    Maybe it is time you take a break and regroup. Think about how you are perceived by your citizens. You are doing far more damage to our cause then help at this time.
    While I value you trying to help and set the record straight with Doug after the fact. Good follow up.
    But your people skills need a lot of help.

    Please relax and have fun with the people that ask you about your gun. Most that ask "stupid" questions really do not know that it is legal to carry. They are a little nervous about asking, so their questions may not make to must sense at the time. I am sure that if you were to ask a person about a job that you have never seen done, that to them, your question would seem silly too.
    ALL people are ignorant of things they do not know. Even you.

    Never argue with store managers. Try and talk WITH them, not AT them. If you still face a manager that will not budge, then be nice and leave. Then as you did later, find out the real corp policy, and write them back.

    Always be professional.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    xnetc9, " i mostly have negative encounters"

    This line, admitted to by you, says a heck of a lot.

    It says to me that from some reason, YOU might be the problem. Could it be your attitude towards others that cause the negative encounters?
    Maybe it is time you take a break and regroup. Think about how you are perceived by your citizens. You are doing far more damage to our cause then help at this time.
    While I value you trying to help and set the record straight with Doug after the fact. Good follow up.
    But your people skills need a lot of help.

    Please relax and have fun with the people that ask you about your gun. Most that ask "stupid" questions really do not know that it is legal to carry. They are a little nervous about asking, so their questions may not make to must sense at the time. I am sure that if you were to ask a person about a job that you have never seen done, that to them, your question would seem silly too.
    ALL people are ignorant of things they do not know. Even you.

    Never argue with store managers. Try and talk WITH them, not AT them. If you still face a manager that will not budge, then be nice and leave. Then as you did later, find out the real corp policy, and write them back.

    Always be professional.
    I agree. I've open carried in half a dozen states, including UOC in California, and I haven't had more than one genuinely negative encounter, and no more than half a dozen potentially negative encounters which were turned into neutral or positive ones. The vast majority of encounters I have had are positive.

    In Northern California, as a member of a group and as an individual (usually before or after a group meet, admittedly), I've encountered predominantly positive encounters, from people of both genders and of all ages.

  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    lucky you! i mostly have negative encounters. try coming to orange county. fairfax is quite a ways from here and it seems to be a sparse populated area, unlike orange county.
    Marshaul used to live in San Francisco (and possibly still does?), so it isn't like he has only lived in places where guns are more accepted. The few occasions I UOC, I'm always not in a rush to do anything in particular. I recognize that I can be arrested for obeying the law and I'm fine with that. I also recognize that carrying a firearm openly in California is an unusual activity and people may stare or ask me silly or confrontational questions. I'm cool with all of that too.

    If I wanted to carry for protection and not be bothered by anybody, I'd either get a CCW or move to a different state or spread the word about open carry so I could get others to answer seemingly silly questions regarding the carrying of firearms. I just think expecting to open carry in California and not to be bothered by questions, comments, or the occasional stare is unrealistic at this point in time.

    If you can convince the person asking the silly question that you're totally normal and the gun is about as important as your keys, then when they tell their family the story of the guy carrying a gun that night (and you know they will), they'll say how it's legal and you seemed like a nice guy and every person listening will have learned something and be more comfortable with the idea of OC. If the story is about a terse, evasive individual then every person listening will be prejudice against any OCer they encounter. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's easier in the long run to win the hearts and minds of people than to create resistance.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Yeah, I still live in San Francisco, although of course there are virtually no school-free zones in the city.

    And Fairfax County is anything but sparsely populated, with a population density of 2,571/sq mi compared to Orange County's density of 3,815/sq mi. Granted, we actually have yards around our houses (), but it's no rural county.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    lucky you! i mostly have negative encounters. try coming to orange county. fairfax is quite a ways from here and it seems to be a sparse populated area, unlike orange county. the ONLY good conversation i had about my gun, and smart ones were with workers at IHOP. they actually ask "is that a 9mm or 45?" instead of asking "is that REAL?" they were curious about gun laws and i assured them [fill in brochure information].

    outside of this, people never approach me and ask about it except for managers which often lead to "get out, store policy". some jealous young adults even whisper among their friends "wow look at that guy with the gun. he needs a gun cuz he has a small dick, lol lol" then all their friends laugh. yea buddy, orange county is one mean place.
    having never met you I can only go by what I have heard. This audio is of the cops that hooked you up and kicked you out of the block this was recorded a couple of weeks after your incident. myself and three other OCers went to the block as we could not let what happen go unchecked.This is them talking about you. We also were E-checked but allowed to continue with our shopping. Remember that when you go out with your gun you represent all of us, dressing appropriately will not only reduce your LEO encounters but also give a good image of OCers in general. I OC all over the same county your in and have never been hassled.

  21. #21
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    OC Kimber,

    Thank you for that clip, it proved my point. I think he needs to calm down and relax. or not carry. He is not doing any of us or the movement any help.

    As my grandpa used to say, if a guy has problems with a lot of people, and no one else has problems with the same people, then maybe the problem is the one guy.

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    you might want to reevalute what OC is all about

    xnetc9 wrote:

    "anyway, problem solved. all of us can UOC to home depot and make this store safe for doug and prevent future robberies. "

    Why would you want to prevent store robberies? That is the LEO's jobs. Are you going to stop a drug deal if you see it infront of the store? Are you going to prevent immigrants from illegally soliciting construction jobs in the parking lot? Maybe someone parking in a handicap zone needs a little talking to.....you see where I am going? Where do you draw the line at what kind of action you are going to draw that weapon?

    Well it it is really easy. All you should give a damn about is protecting yourself and your loved ones. If the store gets robbed so be it. Getting involved is only going to get you shot. The LEO's don't know you, and if they get a robbery call and your standing around waving a gun (at presumably a BG), you are likely to enjoy your last breath on earth that day. OC is for self protection ONLY, nothing else. Let the LEOs clean up crime, they have big legal defense funds when they screw up, do you?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC KIMBER View Post
    having never met you I can only go by what I have heard. This audio is of the cops that hooked you up and kicked you out of the block this was recorded a couple of weeks after your incident. myself and three other OCers went to the block as we could not let what happen go unchecked.This is them talking about you. We also were E-checked but allowed to continue with our shopping. Remember that when you go out with your gun you represent all of us, dressing appropriately will not only reduce your LEO encounters but also give a good image of OCers in general. I OC all over the same county your in and have never been hassled.
    WHOA! hey that's me! your recording is horrible by the way. i had a much clearly recording than that. the guy said i dressed like a gangster and i look like i turned 21? haha cute. i was dressed in blue jeans, not baggy and had a hoodie on. he recognized my gun was a 92fs! freaking everybody out? yes, sheeple would be scared since they never saw open carriers. but remember that cops always think all perps look like gangsters.

    the guy also said that i ripped off my gun in a robbery? please... at least they didn't arrest you guys like they did me. i bet the cop and his squad were trained after the incident to avoid a potential lawsuit. i see a lot of biased descriptions about me here. but hey! at least i am known to their police department to avoid arresting me when they get a call regarding a guy with a gun.
    Last edited by xnetc9; 01-16-2011 at 09:41 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    OC Kimber,

    Thank you for that clip, it proved my point. I think he needs to calm down and relax. or not carry. He is not doing any of us or the movement any help.

    As my grandpa used to say, if a guy has problems with a lot of people, and no one else has problems with the same people, then maybe the problem is the one guy.
    i don't carry because i have to look cool like the rest of you guys. i carry because i reported a gangster to the police regarding his child molestation case. this gangster knows i reported him and he swore to go after me. i don't got a choice but to protect myself. if i could get a ccw, i would, but oc is strict on that stuff.

    no, i have no interest in helping the movement. i don't have time to be sitting around at starbucks passing out brochures trying to educate the masses. yea, i'm not a people person, still that doesn't bar me from using my 2nd to protect myself. i'd gladly stop UOC for u guys if you guys can convince the police to give me 24/7 security. walk me to my car, then protect me as i go groceries shopping.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    xnetc9 wrote:

    "anyway, problem solved. all of us can UOC to home depot and make this store safe for doug and prevent future robberies. "

    Why would you want to prevent store robberies? That is the LEO's jobs. Are you going to stop a drug deal if you see it infront of the store? Are you going to prevent immigrants from illegally soliciting construction jobs in the parking lot? Maybe someone parking in a handicap zone needs a little talking to.....you see where I am going? Where do you draw the line at what kind of action you are going to draw that weapon?

    Well it it is really easy. All you should give a damn about is protecting yourself and your loved ones. If the store gets robbed so be it. Getting involved is only going to get you shot. The LEO's don't know you, and if they get a robbery call and your standing around waving a gun (at presumably a BG), you are likely to enjoy your last breath on earth that day. OC is for self protection ONLY, nothing else. Let the LEOs clean up crime, they have big legal defense funds when they screw up, do you?
    i was kidding. i have no interest in shopping at that home depot anymore even if doug promised his staff is trained to be ok with UOCers. i will only draw my weapon if there is a big threat to myself or my family/friends. but... if i pissed you off in anyway, then i won.

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