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Thread: OC Sheriff's Dept. says it will violate 4A rights at UOC event in Lake Forest on Sun

  1. #1
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    OC Sheriff's Dept. says it will violate 4A rights at UOC event in Lake Forest on Sun

    http://m.ocregister.com/news/group-2...guns-lake.html

    The group of about 10 is expected to be in front of the Corner Bakery from noon to 3 p.m. They will be passing out information about Second Amendment rights to educate the public about the legality of guns, sheriff's Deputy Richard Nelson said..."We will also make sure all the guns are properly registered. We expect them to be peaceful and law abiding citizens."
    Brandon Combs
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    WoW, good game. How would that look if something ever went to court and you prior to the event said you would violate peoples 4A to search and seizure. Thankfully I live in San Diego. . .

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    lol. Having said that, they really oughtn't follow through on it. Treat it as just a little "nothing to see here!" for the benefit of the uninitiated and uninterested.

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Likely just the dept spokesperson talking out the side of his mouth trying to fill 'copy'. But if they do I'm sure it will be on tape.

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    hahaha

    Does anyone want to inform the Orange County Sheriff's Dept. that it's not a crime in California to open carry an unregistered gun, or a registered gun borrowed from a friend???!!!!

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    Everyone should switch guns for the day.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Ohhhhh ... sneakyyyy.
    And entirely legal, not to mention ethical.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chewy352 View Post
    Everyone should switch guns for the day.
    Fun fun fun.

  9. #9
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    I really hope they (carriers) document well, and have a few handguns either without visible serial or unreg'd...
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  10. #10
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
    I really hope they (carriers) document well, and have a few handguns either without visible serial or unreg'd...
    Documentation such as video and audio recording-
    And handguns purchased before 1991 that were not subsequently registered with Cal DOJ.
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    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    Cool

    Indeed; sorry for the cryptic post - I hate typing/posting from an iPod.
    Brandon Combs
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  12. #12
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    And do not consent to searches. But comply with orders.

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Today in Lake Forest

    I will be very brief...

    Some else who was there please correct me if I err, but three UOCers and at least six non-carriers were in attendance, several from CalGuns.

    Corner Bakery was busy inside and out.

    A reporter from Patch Media (an AOL affiliate) was first to make contact.

    Orange County Register photographer and videographers showed up.

    Sheriff's patrol unit cruised the corner a couple times, but no contact until later.

    Protesters (perhaps ten) formed across the driveway and down a bit from our location. They carried "Stop" signs and some other signs that I could not read from my location, nor was I really interested in doing so.

    The manager of Corner Bakery approached and asked that we not only do we not enter the restaurant while carrying, but that we not take photos or videorecord inside the business and out. She was informed that she could ask anything of the media she liked, but that it is perfectly legal for us to record while outside.

    I put the DVD of the Jan 3, 2010 San Pedro-LAPD incident into a laptop for attendees to view while I went across to the opposite corner to The Habit for a burger and soda.

    While waiting for my order, I observed four OCSD patrol unit at the corner, and deputies contacting the UOCers. 12031e, restraint of hands behind back, Terry pat-down and running of serial numbers occured.

    I rejoined my party, and after a conversation with one of the deputies, was subjected to the same treatment by another deputy.

    My Flip video camera and digital voice recorder were both in operation as I queried deputies as to their statutory authority and whether they had RAS or PC for each incident noted above. The most common response was...departmental policy.

    A videographer/reporter from Los Angeles Channel 7 news arrived and recorded footage and conducted brief interviews with both pro- and anti-UOC groups.

    As all this created a media-law enforcement-protester flurry of activity outside the restaurant, we were eventually informed by LE that not only did Corner Bakery not want us inside their business, carrying or not, but that they wanted us of what they held to be "their" property bordering the business (they tables and chairs that they maintain for their customers apparently made that area "theirs").

    The three UOC withdrew from the area immediately in front of Corner Bakery, and shortly thereafter went about their own personal business before leaving the shopping center.

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Did you tell them you do not consent to searches and did they still just do them? Is there any video or audio we can listen too,so we can see the tactics that OCSD used this is why I don't agree with giving the LEO's a heads up on these event they obviously allocated manpower just to harass you The news story ahead of the event did not help. I'm sure the Bradys had there way with the manager at the Corner Bakery long before any OCer even showed up.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A ECNALG View Post
    While waiting for my order, I observed four OCSD patrol unit at the corner, and deputies contacting the UOCers. 12031e, restraint of hands behind back, Terry pat-down and running of serial numbers occured.

    I rejoined my party, and after a conversation with one of the deputies, was subjected to the same treatment by another deputy.

    My Flip video camera and digital voice recorder were both in operation as I queried deputies as to their statutory authority and whether they had RAS or PC for each incident noted above. The most common response was...departmental policy.
    Talk to a lawyer about filing a suit before doing anything else.
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    OCSD has still not got it right, over and over again. I saw the tv news, and it appeared like more than a few deputies were on hand. Apparently the OCSD Lady Sherriff-from -LA wants to treat law abiding citizens like crap, just like LA County. I can bet their is no "policy" to jack people up with their hands held forcefully behind their back for a E check . Whoever told you that was just making up a fairy tale. The training bullitin that they have issued mentions nothing about force able holds for E-checks. Given the circumstances of the OC'ers just sitting enjoying coffee, that seems like excessive over exuberance on the deputies parts.

    They figure you guys don't like getting searched and jerked around by the "green meanies" and will go to some other city where you will be treated with at least some semblance respect. They hope....you will take your meetings elsewhere and not come back.

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    OC Kimber, this wasn't my first rodeo, buckaroo. Of course I and the others stated such to the deputies. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    Yes, there is video. Yes, there is audio. No, I have no idea of when, if ever, it gets posted.

    I questioned several deputies as to their statutory authority for doing what they did. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I raised Arizona v Hicks. I raised McCurdy v Montgomery Co., Ohio (not by name, but in terms of presumptive innocence). I questioned them as to RAS and PC in regards to physical restraint, Terry search and serial number checks. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had been given advance notice, and nothing happened. I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had not been given advance notice, and the handcuffs were thrown on.

    As these events are public-relations in nature, I will always extend to LE the courtessy of advance notice. The only problem with the OC Register was that I had hoped that they would only show up to report the actual event, not advertise it a day in advance. I only hope that the media did not make a MWAG call to LE so as to "make" the news instead of simply reporting the news.

    Blek and company (Brady Bunch) maintained a discrete distance throughout.

    As for LE harassment. If you talk to these folks individually, as I have, you might get a better feel for what they have to deal with, personally, in the public eye, and within their world of training and taking orders from above. As much as today's event (I dislike the way the Register repeatedly referred to it as a "protest") was a zoo, I feel that it will benefit the UOC community through our obtaining so many "it's departmental policy" responses and so few "our authority is found under PC yada, yada, yada." These folks on the beat did what they are trained to do, paid to do...AND TOLD TO DO.

    I am not so much troubled by LE action today as I am troubled by the numerous "sunshine patriots" who dropped out at the very last minute because they were, IMO, frightened off by the possibility of having a check run on their firearm's serial number. These folks couldn't even attend as videographer witnesses to cover our backs. I really have little use for such people.

    As for a lawsuit, I seriously doubt that will happen. Hell, nothing happened after the San Pedro incident of this month last year, and we were handcuffed for nearly fifteen minutes. However, this does not mean that our videos will not eventually be brought to the attention of LE higher up the food chain. I would hope to see them defend "departmental policy" in the face of case law that instructs otherwise.
    Last edited by A ECNALG; 01-17-2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Correct McColly to McCurdy

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    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A ECNALG View Post
    OC Kimber, this wasn't my first rodeo, buckaroo. Of course I and the others stated such to the deputies. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    Yes, there is video. Yes, there is audio. No, I have no idea of when, if ever, it gets posted.

    I questioned several deputies as to their statutory authority for doing what they did. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I raised Arizona v Hicks. I raised McColly v Montgomery Co., Ohio (not by name, but in terms of presumptive innocence). I questioned them as to RAS and PC in regards to physical restraint, Terry search and serial number checks. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had been given advance notice, and nothing happened. I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had not been given advance notice, and the handcuffs were thrown on.

    As these events are public-relations in nature, I will always extend to LE the courtessy of advance notice. The only problem with the OC Register was that I had hoped that they would only show up to report the actual event, not advertise it a day in advance. I only hope that the media did not make a MWAG call to LE so as to "make" the news instead of simply reporting the news.

    Blek and company (Brady Bunch) maintained a discrete distance throughout.

    As for LE harassment. If you talk to these folks individually, as I have, you might get a better feel for what they have to deal with, personally, in the public eye, and within their world of training and taking orders from above. As much as today's event (I dislike the way the Register repeatedly referred to it as a "protest") was a zoo, I feel that it will benefit the UOC community through our obtaining so many "it's departmental policy" responses and so few "our authority is found under PC yada, yada, yada." These folks on the beat did what they are trained to do, paid to do...AND TOLD TO DO.

    I am not so much troubled by LE action today as I am troubled by the numerous "sunshine patriots" who dropped out at the very last minute because they were, IMO, frightened off by the possibility of having a check run on their firearm's serial number. These folks couldn't even attend as videographer witnesses to cover our backs. I really have little use for such people.

    As for a lawsuit, I seriously doubt that will happen. Hell, nothing happened after the San Pedro incident of this month last year, and we were handcuffed for nearly fifteen minutes. However, this does not mean that our videos will not eventually be brought to the attention of LE higher up the food chain. I would hope to see them defend "departmental policy" in the face of case law that instructs otherwise.
    Don't get your panties in a bunch asking a deputy by what authority he has to do this is not the same as I do not consent to a seach of my person or property which no were in your origianl post does it say you did, also you did not say if anybody asked the deputies if you were being detained, without these two questions being asked and answered and recorded there is really not much that can come of this obvious violation of your 4th amendment rights. As for your sunshine patriots some people are just not commited. If you don't pursue legal action I hope you post the video so we can all learn from it.
    Last edited by OC KIMBER; 01-17-2011 at 02:13 AM.

  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC KIMBER View Post
    If you don't pursue legal action I hope you post the video so we can all learn from it.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by A ECNALG View Post
    OC Kimber, this wasn't my first rodeo, buckaroo. Of course I and the others stated such to the deputies. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    Yes, there is video. Yes, there is audio. No, I have no idea of when, if ever, it gets posted.

    I questioned several deputies as to their statutory authority for doing what they did. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I raised Arizona v Hicks. I raised McColly v Montgomery Co., Ohio (not by name, but in terms of presumptive innocence). I questioned them as to RAS and PC in regards to physical restraint, Terry search and serial number checks. Their basic response...departmental policy.

    I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had been given advance notice, and nothing happened. I have been involved in other events where LE and the media had not been given advance notice, and the handcuffs were thrown on.

    As these events are public-relations in nature, I will always extend to LE the courtessy of advance notice. The only problem with the OC Register was that I had hoped that they would only show up to report the actual event, not advertise it a day in advance. I only hope that the media did not make a MWAG call to LE so as to "make" the news instead of simply reporting the news.

    Blek and company (Brady Bunch) maintained a discrete distance throughout.

    As for LE harassment. If you talk to these folks individually, as I have, you might get a better feel for what they have to deal with, personally, in the public eye, and within their world of training and taking orders from above. As much as today's event (I dislike the way the Register repeatedly referred to it as a "protest") was a zoo, I feel that it will benefit the UOC community through our obtaining so many "it's departmental policy" responses and so few "our authority is found under PC yada, yada, yada." These folks on the beat did what they are trained to do, paid to do...AND TOLD TO DO.

    I am not so much troubled by LE action today as I am troubled by the numerous "sunshine patriots" who dropped out at the very last minute because they were, IMO, frightened off by the possibility of having a check run on their firearm's serial number. These folks couldn't even attend as videographer witnesses to cover our backs. I really have little use for such people.

    As for a lawsuit, I seriously doubt that will happen. Hell, nothing happened after the San Pedro incident of this month last year, and we were handcuffed for nearly fifteen minutes. However, this does not mean that our videos will not eventually be brought to the attention of LE higher up the food chain. I would hope to see them defend "departmental policy" in the face of case law that instructs otherwise.
    I understand what cops have to go through. However, they chose their profession of their own free will and swore an oath to follow the law, not debase and butcher it. Therefore, I have no sympathy or mercy for them when they trip over themselves with full knowledge and consent to violate my rights.

  21. #21
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC KIMBER View Post
    Don't get your panties in a bunch asking a deputy by what authority he has to do this is not the same as I do not consent to a seach of my person or property which no were in your origianl post does it say you did, also you did not say if anybody asked the deputies if you were being detained, without these two questions being asked and answered and recorded there is really not much that can come of this obvious violation of your 4th amendment rights. As for your sunshine patriots some people are just not commited. If you don't pursue legal action I hope you post the video so we can all learn from it.
    Who's panties are in a bunch (perhaps I'm squeezed a little to the right at the moment....but, well, let's not go there) ?

    If you read many of the posts on these forums, folks advise not to say ANYTHING. That, to me, encompasses no responses and no questions.

    Yes, there is a great deal I did not communicate in my postings here ("I will be very brief..."). When I was physically restrained, I engaged the individual in explaining his authority, RAS, etc.. Prior to the actual Terry search, same, including a statement of not consenting to search (but not resisting, either). I did what I could, and the best that I could, in the rush of the moment, respectfully and calmly, to get THEM to respond to MY questions. I was not going to let that golden opportunity pass either by remaining silent, or spouting off with only an ineffective "I do not consent..."

    One of the guys who attended has posted his experience at CalGuns. He has video and has indicated a desire to post it.

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    42 usc, 1983

    Hello All,

    The deputy sherriffs and the sherriff will learn when they pay out of their own pocket. That is the only way.

    I am going to write my congressmen, McClintock, and ask that he put forth legislation that makes it a crime punishable with prison for LEOs who wantenly violate the highest law of the land.

    The Constitution is being used as TP.

    markm

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hello All,

    The deputy sherriffs and the sherriff will learn when they pay out of their own pocket. That is the only way.

    I am going to write my congressmen, McClintock, and ask that he put forth legislation that makes it a crime punishable with prison for LEOs who wantenly violate the highest law of the land.

    The Constitution is being used as TP.

    markm
    Don't hold your breath waiting for Congressman McClintock to follow through with your request. If it doesn't fit in for his next campaign to be re-elected, you can forget it. These people take care of #1 first.
    The words of a tyrant: “I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.”

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hello All,

    The deputy sherriffs and the sherriff will learn when they pay out of their own pocket. That is the only way.

    I am going to write my congressmen, McClintock, and ask that he put forth legislation that makes it a crime punishable with prison for LEOs who wantenly violate the highest law of the land.

    The Constitution is being used as TP.

    markm
    +10 I think we should all write him, and also tell of this dumb law PC 12031e, and ask him to put some legislation to remove it.
    As its a direct violation of the 4th.
    Then tell him he just might become the next Governor of Cal.
    Lets try it !


    Robin47

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