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Thread: Legal to Shoot in the Home?

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    Legal to Shoot in the Home?

    Sounds a little odd at first I know, but I wondered if it were illegal to fire a round into a bullet trap inside your own home. Its an hour drive to the pit, and sometimes when working on a load (reloading), I only want to load up a dozen rounds at a time for testing before I load up a couple hundred. I wasn't sure if there were a cite somewhere on the subject. I might guess that it would be illegal, preemption doesn't cover discharge, but I haven't seen laws against it either.

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    If your city has an ordinance against discharging a firearm within the city, I would say you would be violating a city ordinance.

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    Smile

    Unless the city is rural, I have almost always found cities do ban firearm discharge within city limits, which includes the home. Here's an example from Waterford.

    Sec. 11-317

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew
    Last edited by scot623; 01-15-2011 at 01:50 PM.

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    Last edited by lapeer20m; 02-16-2011 at 09:07 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I can't hardly believe a "responsible gun owner" would even need to ask this question.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Firing a firearm in a place you live. Not concerned about lead contamination?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Oh. Also throughout the State it's unlawful to discharge a firearm within 150 (?) yards of an occupied dwelling, unless you have the permission if the owners of said dwelling. I don't have the cite right now, I'm on my phone.

    I bet your neighbors are closer than 150 yards, no? Most trailers are...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Vmaxx's Avatar
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    In Rochester hills you can shoot on your land / lot as long as the round don't leave your land. Same with sterling heights, when I lived there I had a trap in the basement.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    I can't hardly believe a "responsible gun owner" would even need to ask this question.
    Freak out much?

    There are plenty of 100% effective bullet traps available (or easily makable) for normal pistol rounds.

    The lead contamination issue is a much greater one. Ventilate! And wipe down nearby surfaces too.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-15-2011 at 05:02 PM.

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    Along the same line but the code for the city that I live in.

    WeaponsóDischarge.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to use, shoot or discharge any gun, pistol, rifle or other firearm or any slingshot, bow and arrow, air gun or any device for throwing missiles.
    Notice that it makes no provision for LEO nor for the two sporting goods stores in town that have archery ranges. It also does not allow the use of a gun for self-defense or any other use. I suspect it is a case of selective enforcement but it is a screwed up law as far as I am concerned and one day I may try to challenge it without actually breaking any law but just through the courts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Oh. Also throughout the State it's unlawful to discharge a firearm within 150 (?) yards of an occupied dwelling, unless you have the permission if the owners of said dwelling. I don't have the cite right now, I'm on my phone.

    I bet your neighbors are closer than 150 yards, no? Most trailers are...
    This is sort of where I was going with this. I would certainly have my own permission, similar to why we are allowed to use recorders. Why would the discharge ordinances apply to the inside of a home? You are allowed to CC without CPL for instance.

    As far as lead contamination, I reload and cast my own bullets. I am familiar with the safe handling of lead. I was tested and cleared for lead a couple months ago. The bullet trap is quite simple and 100% effective. I use it at the range, as I recycle all of my lead and brass. I have a propane tank filled with dirt and fitted with a 5 gallon bucket lid, you shoot through the lid, and replace as needed. The whole rig is on wheels, and even has a place to clip an 8.5x11 paper target. If you can't hit a 5 gallon lid at 10 feet or less, then you should pick a different hobby.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 01-15-2011 at 09:37 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Along the same line but the code for the city that I live in.



    Notice that it makes no provision for LEO nor for the two sporting goods stores in town that have archery ranges. It also does not allow the use of a gun for self-defense or any other use. I suspect it is a case of selective enforcement but it is a screwed up law as far as I am concerned and one day I may try to challenge it without actually breaking any law but just through the courts.
    Many discharge prohibitions do not explicate a self-defense exemption, but I'm not aware of any place where self-defense wouldn't be sufficient justification. I wonder if there is precedent to that effect?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is sort of where I was going with this. I would certainly have my own permission, similar to why we are allowed to use recorders. Why would the discharge ordinances apply to the inside of a home? You are allowed to CC without CPL for instance.

    As far as lead contamination, I reload and cast my own bullets. I am familiar with the safe handling of lead. I was tested and cleared for lead a couple months ago. The bullet trap is quite simple and 100% effective. I use it at the range, as I recycle all of my lead and brass. I have a propane tank filled with dirt and fitted with a 5 gallon bucket lid, you shoot through the lid, and replace as needed. The whole rig is on wheels, and even has a place to clip an 8.5x11 paper target. If you can't hit a 5 gallon lid at 10 feet or less, then you should pick a different hobby.
    MCL 324.40111 s4

    The way I read it you'd need the written permission of the owner (renter, etc) of every dwelling within 150 yards of the shot.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Normally, local discharge ordinances apply and preclude you from shooting inside the home. I would also research "hunting-type laws" that would possibly apply.

    As for me, I *might* assess it is safe to shoot in my basement if it were legal and I could provide for proper backstop and proper lead handling practices. Even so, I tend to err on the cautious/safe side and would most likely not do this.

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Oh. Also throughout the State it's unlawful to discharge a firearm within 150 (?) yards of an occupied dwelling, unless you have the permission if the owners of said dwelling. I don't have the cite right now, I'm on my phone.

    I bet your neighbors are closer than 150 yards, no? Most trailers are...
    Im going to have to find the AGO referring to it, but there is a AG opinion on the 150 yard, and it refers to Hunting only. Reason is when i check with my township we looked it up. I am rural and it is allowable to "target Practice" even tho our houses are 25 feet or so apart

    i recall seeing a AG opinion on it and post it when if find it again
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  16. #16
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    Near Lansing there are gun clubs with memberships starting at $40. Well worth it, IMHO versus contaminating your home.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Many discharge prohibitions do not explicate a self-defense exemption, but I'm not aware of any place where self-defense wouldn't be sufficient justification. I wonder if there is precedent to that effect?
    Unknown. I seriously doubt any local ordinance in MI would stand legal scrutiny if it had a prohibition on self-defense uses.

    Most of the local discharge ordinances that I have read do have exemptions for self-defense.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    as I read it, if you own the land or live in the place, you may target practice if the township/city has no discharge of a firearm ordnance in place.

    As I said, i had to check with my local city and they gave me the OK
    we do not have a discharge of firearm law here, but there are houses on either side of me with in 25 feet or so of my house, but behind me I have an open field over 1 mile in length with some trees spewed about.



    Opinion No. 5960
    August 18, 1981


    Does MCLA 312.10b(2) prohibit a land-owner from target practicing on his own property located in a township where other residences are within 150 yards, even though such target practicing is carried on in a safe and prudent manner?


    The Game Law of 1929, 1929 PA 286, Sec. 10b, as added by 1968 PA 61, MCLA 312.10b; MSA 13.1339(2), (1) provides as follows:
    '(1) For the purpose of this section, 'safety zone' means any area within 150 yards of any occupied dwelling house, residence, or any other building, cabin, camp or cottage when occupied by human beings or any barn or other building used in connection therewith.
    '(2) No person, other than the owner, tenant or occupant, shall shoot or discharge any firearm or other dangerous weapon, or hunt for or shoot any wild bird or wild animal while it is within such safety zone, without the specific permission of the owner, tenant or occupant thereof.
    '(3) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any landowner, tenant or occupant thereof or their invited guest while hunting on their own property, or to any riparian owner or their tenant or guest while shooting waterfowl lakeward over water from their upland or lakeward from a boat or blind over their submerged soil.'
    Last edited by Onnie; 01-15-2011 at 09:58 PM.
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is sort of where I was going with this. I would certainly have my own permission, similar to why we are allowed to use recorders. Why would the discharge ordinances apply to the inside of a home? You are allowed to CC without CPL for instance.

    As far as lead contamination, I reload and cast my own bullets. I am familiar with the safe handling of lead. I was tested and cleared for lead a couple months ago. The bullet trap is quite simple and 100% effective. I use it at the range, as I recycle all of my lead and brass. I have a propane tank filled with dirt and fitted with a 5 gallon bucket lid, you shoot through the lid, and replace as needed. The whole rig is on wheels, and even has a place to clip an 8.5x11 paper target. If you can't hit a 5 gallon lid at 10 feet or less, then you should pick a different hobby.
    I confess I do not have any experience/knowledge of bullet traps used as a safe way to discharge a firearm other than what I've seen on TV where the gun muzzle is inserted inside the bullet trap before the gun is fired.

    Are you suggesting using the lid of a 5 gallon bucket as a target holder with a homemade (and likely quite effective... that isn't the point of contention) bullet trap as a backstop to allow impromptu target practice inside your home? Even at 10 feet there is a chance of a miss, perhaps.. depending on the person firing... a very slim chance but a chance none the less, and a miss will travel through walls.... and a mobile home's walls offer as much resistance to bullets as cheap toilet paper offers to fingers.... (Don'tcha just love how cheap toilet paper allows ya to get in touch with yer inner self?)

    I'm not knocking you... I'm asking for clarification.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Its a steel propane tank filled with dirt, the lid just keeps the dirt in, and allows you to easily retrieve the bullets. Hitting this thing from inside distances should not be a problem. One of the first, most basic rules is to know your target, and what is behind it.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Its a steel propane tank filled with dirt, the lid just keeps the dirt in, and allows you to easily retrieve the bullets. Hitting this thing from inside distances should not be a problem. One of the first, most basic rules is to know your target, and what is behind it.
    And around it. It is possible for a round to come out the end of the muzzle and not go totally straight.

    It's mire risk than I'd care to take, that's all.

    ETA: did you read the law I posted? MCL 324.40111?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Its a steel propane tank filled with dirt, the lid just keeps the dirt in, and allows you to easily retrieve the bullets. Hitting this thing from inside distances should not be a problem. One of the first, most basic rules is to know your target, and what is behind it.
    To that point, what is behind the target? (my guess...families, kids, pets) We know what's NOT behind it ie. steel plate, cinder block walls ect. ect.

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    The anti's would love people to believe that a bullet doesnt leave the barrel straight, they had great success in banning lawfully owned machine guns, and at one time, assault weapons, including the magazine for the XD 40 that I carry, by telling people that the guns "spray" bullets. I'm not trying to argue with you, I generally like reading your posts, but I found this response a little odd.

    Which law is that? When I searched it, I came up with nothing.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post

    Which law is that? When I searched it, I came up with nothing.
    go type it in on google, I just did it. It's the first hit under: MCL 324.40111
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
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    Stainless, you brought it up now answer the question...What IS behind/beyond your target?
    Last edited by scot623; 01-16-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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