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Thread: Bar, Tavern and Retail Liquor Store Owners Guide to understanding Firearm Possession

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    Bar, Tavern and Retail Liquor Store Owners Guide to understanding Firearm Possession

    Please review this draft.



    Bar, Tavern and Retail Liquor Store Owners Guide


    to understanding Firearm Possession Laws.


    © Brian G. Jeffs, M.S. C.P.G.


    This guide gives owners of business that are licensed to sell alcohol by the State of Michigan a general knowledge of firearm laws in regards to their possession within their businesses. Firearm possession varies and can be confusing to understand when a lawful person can possess a firearm in an establishment that is licensed by the State to sell alcohol. Note that there are differences between Bars, Restaurants, Retail liquor stores and convenience stores in regards to firearm possession. There are also differences in regards to concealed and open carry of a handgun.

    Generally a person can not possess a firearm in/on any place that is an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. (Or equivalent statute.). If so licensed, the types of businesses this statute may cover are Grocery stores, gas stations, convenience stores, restaurants, bars and taverns, Large box stores, etc. Premises include the parking lot. See Appendix-A for the full applicable section of the firearm statutes.


    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited;


    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    The statute does create exemptions to this law, see below. In regards to exemption (c), because of this exemption and Michigan’s concealed carry law (28.425o)</SPAN> a person with a concealed pistol license (CPL) may carry a firearm in a bar, but it MUST be carried openly, i.e. in a holster in plain sight (as on the hip or in a shoulder or thigh holster.).

    Also (a) and (d) allow the owner or their agent to grant permission to people with or without a CPL to possess firearms in their businesses. Note only the owner (with or without a CPL) and his employees (with a CPL) can carry a concealed firearm on his premises.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    Michigan law states that a person that has a CPL can NOT carry a concealed firearm in an establishment that’s primary sales are from alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, i.e., a bar, but they can carry one openly. See Appendix-A and Appendix-B for applicable statutes, attorney General opinion and Bulletin 86 of the Michigan State Police. Note that in this statute premises do not include theparking lot. See below.

    Sec. 5o.
    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that “This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons”. The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (3) As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

    A CPL holder CAN carry concealed or open in restaurants whose primary sales are not from alcohol and in any retail liquor store, grocery store or convenience store, etc., that sell alcohol for consumption off premises.

    CONSUMING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES while in possession of a firearm

    A person can consume alcohol while in possession of a firearm, but statutes exist on how much blood alcohol a person can have before being in violation of either a civil infraction or a misdemeanor
    .
    It is a misdemeanor for a person without a CPL to be under the influence of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance or has an alcohol content of 0.08 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine. Appendix-A contains the applicable statutes.

    A CPL holder carrying a concealed weapon and found to have a bodily alcohol content of .02 to less than .08 can be found guilty of a civil infraction. If the blood alcohol level is at or higher than .08 they can be found guilty of a misdemeanor. Appendix-A contains the applicable statutes.



    Appendix-A


    Pertinent Michigan statutes



    Act 328 of 1931


    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both


    Act 372 of 1927


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
    Sec. 5o.
    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
    (c) A sports arena or stadium.
    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
    (4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.
    (b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.
    (c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the professional investigator licensure act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.
    (d) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.
    (e) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.
    (f) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a member of a sheriff's posse.
    (g) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is an auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.
    (h) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.
    (i) A state court judge or state court retired judge who is licensed under this act. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a state court retired judge to obtain and carry a letter from the judicial tenure commission stating that the state court retired judge is in good standing as authorized under section 30 of article VI of the state constitution of 1963, and rules promulgated under that section, in order to qualify under this subdivision.
    (5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
    (b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
    (c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.



    Act 328 of 1931

    750.237 Liquor or controlled substance; possession or use of firearm by person under influence; violation; penalty; chemical analysis.
    Sec. 237.
    (1) An individual shall not carry, have in possession or under control, or use in any manner or discharge a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
    (a) The individual is under the influence of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance.
    (b) The individual has an alcohol content of 0.08 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine.
    (c) Because of the consumption of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, the individual's ability to use a firearm is visibly impaired.
    (2) Except as provided in subsections (3) and (4), an individual who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $100.00 for carrying or possessing a firearm, or both, and not more than $500.00 for using or discharging a firearm, or both.


    Act 372 of 1927

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    Sec. 5k.
    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).
    (2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
    (a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.
    (b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.
    (c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.
    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.
    (5) Before an individual is required to submit to a chemical analysis under subsection (4), the peace officer shall inform the individual of all of the following:
    (a) The individual may refuse to submit to the chemical analysis, but if he or she chooses to do so, all of the following apply:
    (i) The officer may obtain a court order requiring the individual to submit to a chemical analysis.
    (ii) The refusal may result in his or her license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended or revoked.
    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.
    (6) The collection and testing of breath, blood, and urine specimens under this section shall be conducted in the same manner that breath, blood, and urine specimens are collected and tested for alcohol- and controlled-substance-related driving violations under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.
    (7) If a person refuses to take a chemical test authorized under this section, the peace officer shall promptly report the refusal in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.
    (8) If a person takes a chemical test authorized under this section and the test results indicate that the individual had any bodily alcohol content while carrying a concealed pistol, the peace officer shall promptly report the violation in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.
    (9) As used in this section:
    (a) “Alcoholic liquor” means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.
    (b) “Controlled substance” means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7401.


    Appendix-B


    Attorney General opinion and Michigan State Police Legal update bulletin 86


    Attorney General opinion No. 7097
    Excerpt:
    FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN January 11, 2002:
    This conclusion is not affected by the provisions of section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. That statute prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    c) A court.
    d) A theatre.
    e) A sports arena.
    f) A day care center.
    g) A hospital.
    h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession
    of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    b) A peace officer.
    c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [Emphasis added.]
    By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol,… is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

    MSP Legal Update No. 86 October 26th, 2010

    Excerpt:

    Note, the…statute [MCL 28.425o] applies to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. If the CPL holder is carrying a non-concealed pistol, the statute does not apply. As noted above, the unlawful premises listed in MCL 750.234d do not apply to persons with a valid CPL. Therefore, a person with a valid CPL may carry a non-concealed pistol in the areas described in MCL 28.425o and MCL 750.234d.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Venator, a couple questions:

    1. What is the expected audience and usage of this Guide?
    2. Will this be a "for-profit" guide?
    3. Who is the Intellectual Property Owner?
    4. Will this document be limited to use by a single firearms rights organization within MI?

  3. #3
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I believe that this guide will address a defined need, as many who own such establishments are probably unaware or misinformed in the applicable MI Laws regarding Firearms.

    My initial quick read comments:

    A. The initial 2 paragraphs of the "Overview" are good, maybe just a very minor application of word-smithing would be helpful.

    B. I would add a 3rd paragraph that describes the "exception conditions" as part of the "Overview" Section instead of jumping right into the MCL's. This will help provide the clarifications that owners can utilize.

    C. You may want to add a section prior to the appendixes on how to display information to patrons about this and how to interact with patrons on this information.


    I will look at this some more tomorrow as I have time. My daughter's 18th B-Day Party was last night and I have not yet recovered from staying up all night (not as young as I used to be).

    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 01-15-2011 at 09:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Venator, a couple questions:

    1. What is the expected audience and usage of this Guide?
    2. Will this be a "for-profit" guide?
    3. Who is the Intellectual Property Owner?
    4. Will this document be limited to use by a single firearms rights organization within MI?
    1-Any business owner with a liquor license.
    2-Unknown at this time, leaning toward non-profit
    3-Me at this time
    4-Unknown at this time.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I believe that this guide will address a defined need, as many who own such establishments are probably unaware or misinformed in the applicable MI Laws regarding Firearms.

    My initial quick read comments:

    A. The initial 2 paragraphs of the "Overview" are good, maybe just a very minor application of word-smithing would be helpful.

    B. I would add a 3rd paragraph that describes the "exception conditions" as part of the "Overview" Section instead of jumping right into the MCL's. This will help provide the clarifications that owners can utilize.

    C. You may want to add a section prior to the appendixes on how to display information to patrons about this and how to interact with patrons on this information.


    I will look at this some more tomorrow as I have time. My daughter's 18th B-Day Party was last night and I have not yet recovered from staying up all night (not as young as I used to be).

    Thanks, good comments just what I'm looking for.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    1-Any business owner with a liquor license.
    2-Unknown at this time, leaning toward non-profit
    3-Me at this time
    4-Unknown at this time.

    As long as you credit the sites you posted this to as participating in reviewing/editing, then I believe you will be well served.


  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    You might want to hold on for just a while, HB 4009 may make some changes in allowing concealed carry, if it goes through as is, and the Pistol Free Zones part of the CPL law is repealed. (My fingers are crossed on this one. )
    Big Gay Al
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  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    You might want to hold on for just a while, HB 4009 may make some changes in allowing concealed carry, if it goes through as is, and the Pistol Free Zones part of the CPL law is repealed. (My fingers are crossed on this one. )
    Big Gay Al,
    Thanks for posting HB4009 in its own thread. This will be something that we need to contact members of the Judiciary Committee and swamp them with a stack of letters and phone calls demanding the elimination of the pfz's. Let's get this out of committee and on to the floor for a vote as soon as possible.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 01-17-2011 at 12:07 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

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  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Big Gay Al,
    Thanks for posting HB4009 in its own thread. This will be something that we need to contact members of the Judiciary Committee and swamp them with a stack of letters and phone calls demanding the elimination of the pfz's. Let's get this out of committee and on to the floor for a vote as soon as possible.
    Yup, did that first.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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