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Thread: im really thinking about open carrying my pistol instead of gettin a ccw permit

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    im really thinking about open carrying my pistol instead of gettin a ccw permit

    i live in tangipahoa parish what kind of response can i exspect from police? im 23 own guns legaly never been in trouble and im just really thinking about open carry instead of concealed carry for a few reason one right now my only reliable weapon i own that i could carry si to big to conceal im a small guy and my p85 is rather large but id hate to make more hassel for myself just to feel better when i leave the house anybody from tangipahoa parish got any open carry exsperience? and pleas eexscuse my bad spellin and lack of things such as .,! things like that cause i get long winded and my brain runs at about 1143 feet per second so lets hear what you fine people have to say

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Just my personal opinion based on my experience. if you can get your concealed permit then it is a good idea to have it on you even if you plan on open carrying all the time. The most important reason for this is that gun free school zones are all over in every town and they do not have to be appropriately marked. La. recently passed a law making it legal to conceal carry in a gun free school zone. There are some other good reasons to have a concealed permit as there are places and times when you just might not want trouble and having your permit will allow you to quickly cover up without breaking the law...if that is a concern for you. As long as your weapon is legally considered to be a hand gun and you have your permit it does not matter how well your gun can be concealed, as long as you have a permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    Just my personal opinion based on my experience. if you can get your concealed permit then it is a good idea to have it on you even if you plan on open carrying all the time. The most important reason for this is that gun free school zones are all over in every town and they do not have to be appropriately marked. La. recently passed a law making it legal to conceal carry in a gun free school zone. There are some other good reasons to have a concealed permit as there are places and times when you just might not want trouble and having your permit will allow you to quickly cover up without breaking the law...if that is a concern for you. As long as your weapon is legally considered to be a hand gun and you have your permit it does not matter how well your gun can be concealed, as long as you have a permit.
    i just dont really have the money to get the permit right now nor do i feel like going through the paperwork fingerprints and so forth as far as school zones go only time im in a school one would be when im passin one up in my vehicle im not thinking about just walking around town with my firearm i meant more like if i go to wallmart or if i go to the store or any other public place and i have it on my side in a holster in plain sight what kind of response would i be lookin at? from what i can gather police will give u just as much hassel if i were to have my permit and open carry as they would if i didnt have my permit and open carry seems sum police are misinformed and think that once u get ur ccw thats the only way u can carry so id hate to go through getting my ccw just to be hassels about not concealing it

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    Last edited by NRAMARINE; 01-17-2011 at 07:19 PM.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    haha i wonder how many ccw holders they have sold to while carrying?

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    Regular Member Wolfgang1952's Avatar
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    I open carry all the time. I donít like the idea of being finger printed and thought of as a criminal if for any reason you do get stopped and you have a CC. Iíve been OCing for a while now. Iíve been asked to leave a couple of places because I OC. But most places Iíve been are OK with it. I travil all over the North Shore and some of the South Shore. Most of the time I am on my Scooter ( Motorcycle ). Sometimes I carry my 1911 in Military Web and then I carry a 1861 Navy Type ll Richards Conversion in Western Diedown Leather.
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    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    Estcrh makes a good point about a CC permit giving you options. That's something to give serious consideration when one chooses to carry a firearm.

    As far as OC in Tangi parish goes, generally there seems to be little problem with it here. It's a mostly rural parish and guns seem to be, for the most part, seen/treated as the tools they are, as opposed to the "weapons of mass destruction" mindset of places like Orleans parish.

    That said however, people of your age seem to have a greater chance of public/police interaction than someone of my age. This is not to say you will, but younger members of these forums have, in the past, been questioned in establishments that older members have had no issues in. It's a perception thing and one your going to have to be prepared to deal with if you choose to OC. Don't let it scare you. Educate yourself on the laws, it's not hard to do that.

    Don't dress like a friggin gangbanger when your carrying, be polite and courteous, carry with a confident demeanor and you'll go a long way in helping to convince the public that you are just an average citizen and that OC can be an everyday normal activity that doesn't incite panic in the aisles of Wal Mart. To be honest, most people just never notice the sidearm (caveat: that depends on what and how you're carrying of course).

    If you want to dip your toe in the OC water but would like someone else along to combat that "I'm all alone and people are staring at me" feeling :-), throw me a PM sometime, I'm a Tangi resident too. Always glad to meet with a fellow OCer.

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    thats kool man yeah as far as gangbanger attire goes i do enjoy my baggy pants but i dont wear bid ole diamonds and necklases that weigh more than me ima have to get me a holster before i can even try to carry cause i dont think holding it in ur hand qualifies but that being said im lookin at holsters now and if i so decide to put it on my belt and go to town i would like the option so now im trying to find a decent holster with a thumb break that is made for my ruger p85 and wont be worth more than all three of my crappy vehicles put together i think i found one i like but the trigger would be exsposed while the gun was in it but im really partial to brown leather and this is the only brown one ive found so far that has a thumb break dont cost alot and is made for my p85 anybody care to share sum seasoned thoughts on this one?http://www.cowboyneeds.com/196_wo_pl_auto.jpg

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    I support the right to Open Carry but balance it with the reality that OC may not be fore everyone and is not something a person should do on a whim. As posted in this thread already, some OCers have had problems form store managers and LEOs. It is incumbant upon the responsible gun owner to prepare as well as possible before Ocing. That includes being well versed in the various Revised Statutes and laws which could affect your carry in some places. Knowing SC decisions like Terry v Ohio and our own state court opinions dealing with Open Carry are important. So is being aware of the Attorney General opinions, which don't have the weight of law but are important educational tools regarding OC. Do you have a plan before you leave the house regarding how you will handle an encounter with a citizen, store manager or LEO who is hostile to your OCing? Have you armed yourself with knowledge of the law and facts so that you are able to stand up for your rights? You are carrying a firearm. Are you trained to use it should a situation develop which you can't avoid? Are you prepared to deal with the legal complications which are sure to follow a self defense shooting? Have you found a lawyer who will defend you when the cops arrest you after a self defense shooting? Are you planning on carrying a digital voice recorder or video camera to document any negative encounters you may have with citizens, store employees or LEOs? Are you prepared to follow up after a negative encounter with formal complaints or other actions to educate or punish the person who initiated a negative encounter?
    All of this and more should be weighed when thinking about OC. While you have the right to OC it is not as simple as many believe.
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    Regular Member DrakeXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    La. recently passed a law making it legal to conceal carry in a gun free school zone.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is so that we can CC within the 1000ft of a school, not on actual school property. Right?
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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeXD View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is so that we can CC within the 1000ft of a school, not on actual school property. Right?
    Thats right, school property is a different matter.

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frodo70444 View Post
    i just dont really have the money to get the permit right now nor do i feel like going through the paperwork fingerprints and so forth as far as school zones go only time im in a school one would be when im passin one up in my vehicle im not thinking about just walking around town with my firearm i meant more like if i go to wallmart or if i go to the store or any other public place and i have it on my side in a holster in plain sight what kind of response would i be lookin at? from what i can gather police will give u just as much hassel if i were to have my permit and open carry as they would if i didnt have my permit and open carry seems sum police are misinformed and think that once u get ur ccw thats the only way u can carry so id hate to go through getting my ccw just to be hassels about not concealing it
    One BAD encounter can cost you way more money and a lot more paperwork then that pesky permit. It seems like you have your mind made up already, if so then consider this>>>>if you do not have the rather small amount of money it costs for a concealed permit then you certainly will not be able to afford an attorney. If you are determined to open carry without the OPTION to conceal LEGALLY just in case.... then please read all the recent adventures of forum members here who have had problems while LEGALLY carrying their gun out in the open....and read Turbodog's and Yales advice here to you and take it ALL in, they are doing you a favor by telling you how it really is in this state. Being confronted by a law enforcement officer who does not recognize your so called RIGHT to legally carry a gun openly in this state is a reality and ANY confrontation can turn very bad very fast...add to that the citizens who will call the police on you for "man with a gun".

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    Regular Member -David's Avatar
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    estrch, I'm sure you mean well but I think your logic is flawed. It probably has a lot to do with where you live and the history & perception of guns in New Orleans.

    I'm considering getting my CHP as another option for protecting me & mine where OCing is either not allowed by law or where concealment just makes more sense to me. Period. Not as insurance against uneducated officials.

    I don't carry any ID on me while I'm OCing except maybe a debit card which would identify me (and I wouldn't carry a CHP with me while OCing). I know my rights and responsibilities under the law. I consider myself a responsible citizen and I'm familiar with applicable local & federal laws and opinions, and I'm prepared for encounters with police whenever I open carry.

    You have much work to do in your area to raise awareness about the legality of open carry.


    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    One BAD encounter can cost you way more money and a lot more paperwork then that pesky permit. It seems like you have your mind made up already, if so then consider this>>>>if you do not have the rather small amount of money it costs for a concealed permit then you certainly will not be able to afford an attorney. If you are determined to open carry without the OPTION to conceal LEGALLY just in case.... then please read all the recent adventures of forum members here who have had problems while LEGALLY carrying their gun out in the open....and read Turbodog's and Yales advice here to you and take it ALL in, they are doing you a favor by telling you how it really is in this state. Being confronted by a law enforcement officer who does not recognize your so called RIGHT to legally carry a gun openly in this state is a reality and ANY confrontation can turn very bad very fast...add to that the citizens who will call the police on you for "man with a gun".
    Last edited by -David; 01-20-2011 at 09:07 PM. Reason: georg

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -David View Post
    estrch, I'm sure you mean well but I think your logic is flawed. It probably has a lot to do with where you live and the history & perception of guns in New Orleans.

    I'm considering getting my CHP as another option for protecting me & mine where OCing is either not allowed by law or where concealment just makes more sense to me. Period. Not as insurance against uneducated officials.

    I don't carry any ID on me while I'm OCing except maybe a debit card which would identify me (and I wouldn't carry a CHP with me while OCing). I know my rights and responsibilities under the law. I consider myself a responsible citizen and I'm familiar with applicable local & federal laws and opinions, and I'm prepared for encounters with police whenever I open carry.

    You have much work to do in your area to raise awareness about the legality of open carry.
    My logic comes from having to actually fire my weapon at someone when open carrying and having to deal the the police as a result. If you have ANY kind of an encounter with law enforcement officials you will need identification, and if you use your weapon in ANY way they have the right to do a back round check on you and your weapon to see if you can actually legally carry a gun and if the gun is stolen....many people can not own a gun due to violations of certain laws. A debit card is not a recognized means of identification. If you read this forum you will see that many members here have been been stopped and harassed while carrying their weapon openly in a legal manner. There is a difference between what you believe your "rights" are and what law enforcement officials believe their "rights" are.

    I did not say anyone had to carry a concealed permit while open carrying, I was giving an inexperienced person my personal opinion on how to best avoid trouble while open carrying if confronted by any law enforcement official. Try actually having to use your open carry weapon with no identification and see what happens. There are many gun free school zones in every city and town, these zones are not necessarily marked and if you wander into one while open carrying without a concealed permit on you SERIOUS trouble could result. While you may be harassed and or questioned for having a firearm in on of these gun fre school zones the concealed permit will keep you out of any trouble in the end. This reason alone should be enough to make any reasonable person at least consider getting their permit. With all the recent shootings we read about, the public and law enforcement officials will be even more likely to question anyone they see openly carrying a gun and its best to be prepared for the worst and not hope for the best.

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    There are many gun free school zones in every city and town, these zones are not necessarily marked and if you wander into one while open carrying without a concealed permit on you SERIOUS trouble could result. While you may be harassed and or questioned for having a firearm in on of these gun fre school zones the concealed permit will keep you out of any trouble in the end.
    It was my understanding that the new law states that you may carry in a school zone "persuant" to a CHP which means the gun must be concealed. Having a CHP and Open Carrying in a School Zone will not help you.
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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    My logic comes from having to actually fire my weapon at someone when open carrying and having to deal the the police as a result. If you have ANY kind of an encounter with law enforcement officials you will need identification,
    Cite please. Some (maybe most?) states don't require you to present ID when stopped by a LEO - verbal identification (name and address) is sufficient. (Mississippi is one state that does not require you to present physical ID, for example.)

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    and if you use your weapon in ANY way they have the right to do a back round check on you and your weapon to see if you can actually legally carry a gun and if the gun is stolen....many people can not own a gun due to violations of certain laws.
    "Many" people? And what "certain" laws? You're making some sweeping claims here. You may very well be right, but you should back up your claims with cites to authority. As per forum rule #5:
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    A debit card is not a recognized means of identification. If you read this forum you will see that many members here have been been stopped and harassed while carrying their weapon openly in a legal manner.
    And how would having a CHP help when an OCer is being harassed for open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    There is a difference between what you believe your "rights" are and what law enforcement officials believe their "rights" are.
    Agreed, but I (and others) argue that we shouldn't kowtow to what LEOs think their "rights" are when it stomps all over our real rights as delineated by constitutions, laws and court cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    I did not say anyone had to carry a concealed permit while open carrying, I was giving an inexperienced person my personal opinion on how to best avoid trouble while open carrying if confronted by any law enforcement official. Try actually having to use your open carry weapon with no identification and see what happens. There are many gun free school zones in every city and town, these zones are not necessarily marked and if you wander into one while open carrying without a concealed permit on you SERIOUS trouble could result. While you may be harassed and or questioned for having a firearm in on of these gun fre school zones the concealed permit will keep you out of any trouble in the end. This reason alone should be enough to make any reasonable person at least consider getting their permit. With all the recent shootings we read about, the public and law enforcement officials will be even more likely to question anyone they see openly carrying a gun and its best to be prepared for the worst and not hope for the best.
    I agree with yale, my memory of that bill was that CC with a CHP was the only method of carry permitted in a GFSZ. Can't bet my life on that though, it's been a while since I read the text.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Forgot to add:

    I'm not anti-CHP/CCL, in case it was unclear. I just got my MS concealed carry license as a matter of fact. For one, the status of OC in MS is a bit unclear, so under Mississippi law the license may provide some protection when I OC due to the unclear definition of "concealed in whole or in part" (see the MS forum if you want to know the details). And the license gives me more flexibility if I do wish to CC instead of OC.

    Again, that's under MS law, which is unclear on the definition of partial concealment. LA has no such issue, so a CHP isn't useful when someone is OCing (until the moment he/she decides to cover up).

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    frodo70444:

    Open Carry of ANY Firearm, so as long as The Person can Legally have the same, IS Legal in Louisiana, and you have NO need for a Permit of any kind.

    However, IF you should choose to get one for yourself, DO NOT let The Police tell you that: '...[O]nce you have a Permit, you HAVE to CONCEAL.' This is a Lie!

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    It was my understanding that the new law states that you may carry in a school zone "persuant" to a CHP which means the gun must be concealed. Having a CHP and Open Carrying in a School Zone will not help you.
    I do not believe that you are actually required to have your weapon concealed when you have a concealed carry permit, if someone can state any part of the regulation that says that you have to have your weapon concealed then post it so we can all see, as per my personal discussions with the D.A.s office in New Orleans I was told that legally you do not have to conceal, I could be wrong and would be glad to admit it if anyone can post any part of the regulation that specifically says that.

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    Regular Member -David's Avatar
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    Good questions - I would have brought them up as well. I too await a reply from estrch.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Cite please. Some (maybe most?) states don't require you to present ID when stopped by a LEO - verbal identification (name and address) is sufficient. (Mississippi is one state that does not require you to present physical ID, for example.)


    "Many" people? And what "certain" laws? You're making some sweeping claims here. You may very well be right, but you should back up your claims with cites to authority. As per forum rule #5:



    And how would having a CHP help when an OCer is being harassed for open carry?


    Agreed, but I (and others) argue that we shouldn't kowtow to what LEOs think their "rights" are when it stomps all over our real rights as delineated by constitutions, laws and court cases.


    I agree with yale, my memory of that bill was that CC with a CHP was the only method of carry permitted in a GFSZ. Can't bet my life on that though, it's been a while since I read the text.

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    . LA has no such issue, so a CHP isn't useful when someone is OCing (until the moment he/she decides to cover up).
    Why dont you "cite" the regulation that backs up your statement? Where is your proof that a concealed permit is not "useful" when open carrying?

    My advice was not to you, it was to the person who originally started the post, why dont you just post your advice if your so knowledgeable on the subject and the person who started the post can decide which way to go. Having several different view points never hurts. If you think that you can open carry with no identification and then not comply with a request by a law enforcement official for identification then be my guest and see what happens, on the other hand if I believe a law enforcement official has violated my rights I will hire an attorney to handle the problem in an appropriate manner.

    You people that have so much big talk about how your not going to "kowtow" do exactly the same thing everyone else does when a law enforcement officer confronts you...you do what you are asked to do, you know it and I know it so dont pretend your some kind of superhero freedom fighter. If you want to mislead someone into thinking that they can run around with an unconcealed weapon and no identification and that they can refuse to follow a request from a law enforcement officer then go right ahead, I wont try to stop you.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    I do not believe that you are actually required to have your weapon concealed when you have a concealed carry permit, if someone can state any part of the regulation that says that you have to have your weapon concealed then post it so we can all see, as per my personal discussions with the D.A.s office in New Orleans I was told that legally you do not have to conceal, I could be wrong and would be glad to admit it if anyone can post any part of the regulation that specifically says that.
    Correct, there is no requirement to conceal merely because you possess a CHP.

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    Why dont you "cite" the regulation that backs up your statement? Where is your proof that a concealed permit is not "useful" when open carrying?
    Um, it's the lack of any regulation containing requirements for a CHP to OC that is the basis for my claim. You know, the whole "if there's no law against it, then it's not illegal" line of logic that most of the legal system operates on.

    First off, it's a Concealed Handgun Permit. See RS 40:1379.3 if you have any doubts as to what it applies to. Tell me where that applies to an unconcealed (i.e. openly carried) firearm.

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    My advice was not to you, it was to the person who originally started the post, why dont you just post your advice if your so knowledgeable on the subject and the person who started the post can decide which way to go. Having several different view points never hurts. If you think that you can open carry with no identification and then not comply with a request by a law enforcement official for identification then be my guest and see what happens, on the other hand if I believe a law enforcement official has violated my rights I will hire an attorney to handle the problem in an appropriate manner.
    So you can present one of those "several different view points", but I can't? I've got a revelation for you: this is an Internet forum, open for all to participate in (subject to the owners' rules, of course). That means that if you post an opinion, put on your big boy panties and be prepared for some criticism and questions about your statement(s). If you can't take the heat, well... it sucks to be you.

    And yes, I know I can OC with no identification, because unless there is a law requiring me to present physical ID when detained, I am not required to do so. Open Carry is not a licensed activity, unlike driving a motor vehicle. Are you required to carry an ID while taking an (unarmed) walk up your street? Why would adding another non-licensed activity (OC) be any different? If you find a law that states I must carry and present ID at any request by an LEO, then please post the reference.

    Third, you're leaving out something critical in your statement about LEO requests/orders. We most definitely must comply with lawful orders. But unlawful orders, by their very nature of being unlawful, have zero force of law!

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    You people that have so much big talk about how your not going to "kowtow" do exactly the same thing everyone else does when a law enforcement officer confronts you...you do what you are asked to do, you know it and I know it so dont pretend your some kind of superhero freedom fighter. If you want to mislead someone into thinking that they can run around with an unconcealed weapon and no identification and that they can refuse to follow a request from a law enforcement officer then go right ahead, I wont try to stop you.
    I'm SO glad you can tell me everything about myself. I'd be lost without a mind-reader like you.

    If an officer detains me and issues an unlawful request/order, then I will not consent. I will state "I do not consent, but I will not resist." See how that works? I'm not resisting (so any charges of resisting won't stick), and I will be quite polite, but I do not consent, so everyone is quite clear on the fact that it is an illegal order and it leaves no doubt when I follow up with a lawsuit over the violation of my rights. There are several threads already on this topic that cover it with more detail in the main sections of OCDO, so I won't belabor the point. But you need to realize that there are indeed methods of handling an LEO encounter somewhere in between aggressive resistance and meek submission.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 01-21-2011 at 02:17 PM.

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    Say it again

    We've been through this already, but I don't feel like searching for the old thread...

    Art 1 sec 11 of La Const protects OCing...

    RS 14:95.6 B(5) of the La's GFSZ law states...
    B. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:
    (5) Any constitutionally protected activity within the firearm-free zone, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.

    The La legislature CANNOT and did not attempt to include OCing in the LA GFSZ law.

    However, the fed GFSZ law (look it up yourself) makes an exception for a permit... thus an OCwer needs a CC permit to POSSESS a firearm.. and there is NO requirement to have said permit on the person.

    CC law is irrelevant for OCing in La...

    So in order to OC in a GFSZ in La one MUST (for now) have been given a CC permit to comply with fed law.

  24. #24
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post

    However, the fed GFSZ law (look it up yourself) makes an exception for a permit... thus an OCwer needs a CC permit to POSSESS a firearm.. and there is NO requirement to have said permit on the person.

    CC law is irrelevant for OCing in La...

    So in order to OC in a GFSZ in La one MUST (for now) have been given a CC permit to comply with fed law.
    And if you do not have your permit on you in a gun free zone and you are stopped by a law enforcement officer. what happens George? You will be ARRESTED...duhh

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
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    Louisiana, USA
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    365
    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Correct, there is no requirement to conceal merely because you possess a CHP.

    .
    Im glad you understand that. Like I said, if you think you are gong to be the one to decide if an officer is giving you a legal order or not then be my guest and if you want to give someone your advice then go right ahead, just do not comment on my advice...which is what you did, instead of just telling the original poster your opinion and letting him decide what he will do. If you do not want me commenting on your way of doing things them dont comment on mine. Its that simple.

    My advice for anyone open carrying is to #1. have a concealed permit on you. #2 have identification on you #3 have the receipt for your gun on you.

    Thats my advice.....so whats the big deal. If you do not personally agree with me to bad, I am not talking to you, I am talking to the person who originally posted his thoughts on the subject here, and yes it is a public forum and you may if you wish say anything you want but do not act so shocked when you get your own actions thrown back at you. Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it.

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