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Thread: Did Loughner think he was rational?

  1. #1
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    Did Loughner think he was rational?

    Do you suppose that Loughner thought his rants were rational? Did he think that they came off as intelligent and informed? Did he think that his logic followed a sequence that would make any sense to a rational human being?

    I think he thought so. We all know that he made no sense. But he surely thought he did.

    To the irrational, his own rants seem rational.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    A number of things that he points out in the videos appears to be rational and logical. Number sequences that he had provided indicates that he was thinking logically.

    When he is referencing language and it meaning nothing, or as a third language, he is referring to the way all humans, specifically Americans, "manipulate" language. Is he wrong? We all manipulate language, and interpret incoming data differently.

    I hope this guy is hanged quickly...we know that won't happen.

    Was he irrational, nope. Was he thinking illogically, nope. He knew exactly what he was doing, and was clear about why he was doing it.

    When you talk about rational and irrational, I am not sure what you mean by that. Is he irrational because you refuse to or are unable to comprehend or relate to what he was saying? Is he irrational because he decided one day to drive to a store and shoot a bunch of people?

    A person is rational if they are completely aware of what they are doing; and logical if they are able to reason, an example, him pointing out sequences of numbers. He wasn't arguing that 1+1=4, he was pointing out that (example) 1+1=2
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-16-2011 at 11:10 PM.
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    I read through a good portion of his stuff and some of it makes sense, some of it didn't. Who is to really say when we all live within our own illusions anyways? For instance, I definitely am not going to take a Scientologist's criticism about the young man's mental state too seriously.

    His writings aren't what seemed over the top to me though some of them definitely fit my personal definition for weird. Its his actions that set him apart from all the other ones of us out here who live in our differing degrees of insanity and ignorance within the realities we've created for ourselves. Until somebody shows a willingness to maliciously injure or kill innocents, I say you let him live and cope with his inner feelings and beliefs despite how foreign they may be to many of us.
    Last edited by MK; 01-16-2011 at 11:51 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    When he is referencing language and it meaning nothing, or as a third language, he is referring to the way all humans, specifically Americans, "manipulate" language. Is he wrong? We all manipulate language, and interpret incoming data differently.
    Um, he wasn't coming from a philosophical consideration on the meanings of words. He was coming from the land of this guy.

    Let's see if that guy's own explanation does it for you:
    FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.
    Yup, quite rational.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Um, he wasn't coming from a philosophical consideration on the meanings of words. He was coming from the land of this guy.
    Let's see if that guy's own explanation does it for you:
    Yup, quite rational.
    The guy apparently gave some detailed thought to language...philosophical consideration. He concluded that it was meant to control the masses, and kill the individual. i don't think he meant to kill the person literally, but to make each person a number. More a dehumanization of the individual, but retain the body, the will to be productive, and productive...pay taxes. I could be way off, as usual!

    FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE:

    FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS

    HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN

    PERIOD=END-THOUGHT

    COMMA-PAUSE

    LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON
    LMFAO! I would have to read what the hell he means by each word, the context, and subject. Apparently, this man created his own language using the English language as some sort of template.

    So, what you are saying is, "if it doesn't make sense to me, it is illogical, and irrational"? Can you live with that? Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean that there is nothing rational or logical there.

    You have to get into his mind; not to deep though, I think he's freaking crazy!

    Wait, thank you for the link. What you provided was actually a great example. The example is how one person can be "out there" and non-violent, while another can be "out there" and violent...just never know which one is going to go off the deep end and get violent.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-17-2011 at 12:24 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I recall hearing somewhere that the insane never think that they are the insane ones, and that it you're wondering if you're insane then you're probably not.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    On April 6, 1988, Miller invented what he calls the Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language[12] or Correct-Language.[13] According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."[12] Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation. Miller explains:
    FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.[12]
    According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable “prepositional phrase.” They are distinguished from the names listed at birth in all capital letters (as on a birth certificate), which he claims turns one into a taxable Person (Corporation). (e.g., DAVID WYNN MILLER as opposed to avid-Wynn: Miller.).” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller
    Ok, so, he created his own language, as I said, using the English language, A-Z and SYM. as a template.

    The guy is rational and logical. He is crazy, but in a rational and logical way.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-17-2011 at 12:44 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    The guy apparently gave some detailed thought to language...philosophical consideration. He concluded that it was meant to control the masses, and kill the individual. i don't think he meant to kill the person literally, but to make each person a number. More a dehumanization of the individual, but retain the body, the will to be productive, and productive...pay taxes. I could be way off, as usual!

    LMFAO! I would have to read what the hell he means by each word, the context, and subject. Apparently, this man created his own language using the English language as some sort of template.

    So, what you are saying is, "if it doesn't make sense to me, it is illogical, and irrational"? Can you live with that? Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean that there is nothing rational or logical there.

    You have to get into his mind; not to deep though, I think he's freaking crazy!

    Wait, thank you for the link. What you provided was actually a great example. The example is how one person can be "out there" and non-violent, while another can be "out there" and violent...just never know which one is going to go off the deep end and get violent.
    I'm not saying that it's illogical and irrational because I don't understand it, I'm saying it's illogical and irrational because it is.

    It's more than just inventing his own derivation of English. They take this stuff to court; trying to argue they don't have to pay taxes because, if they spell their name with colons and hyphens, they become a "verb, not a noun". They seem to think that government has twisted language to manipulate us, and their language is the only correct English.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-17-2011 at 02:14 AM.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    He was irrational and illogical to the point where he was no longer qualified to render either a rational or a logical opinion of his rationality or logic.

    That does not necessarily equate to insanity, as those are literally different areas of the brain.

    Time will tell. Charles Manson is complete fruitcake, too, who did horrible things but I'd rather not spend a cent more of our tax dollars holding him in prison.

    I'd donate $0.50 for a shiny new bullet, though.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  10. #10
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    Looked to me like he was just going around in circles in his own mind, as opposed to just coming up for air once in a while to touch base with the reality the words symbolize.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post

    It's more than just inventing his own derivation of English. They take this stuff to court; trying to argue they don't have to pay taxes because, if they spell their name with colons and hyphens, they become a "verb, not a noun". They seem to think that government has twisted language to manipulate us, and their language is the only correct English.
    We have these same arguments on this page from time to time about how the government interprets the Constitution to mean whatever it might want it to mean. This idea of government manipulation of language is not only held by people like this guy that believes the government manipulates the English language to control people.

    When the government interprets the Constitution and you perceive it as politically motivated, and unConstitutional, you are saying that they are manipulating the English language to control you.

    Whoever buys a book from this guy on how to basically unname yourself in order to not pay taxes, they should get their money back.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Looked to me like he was just going around in circles in his own mind, as opposed to just coming up for air once in a while to touch base with the reality the words symbolize.
    Nihilism isn't a bad thing. What is bad is when a person doesn't come back from time to time to get a breath of fresh air, ground themselves a bit, smell the flowers; then they can go back off into laa laa-land.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Time will tell. Charles Manson is complete fruitcake, too, who did horrible things but I'd rather not spend a cent more of our tax dollars holding him in prison.

    Actually, there is no concrete evidence that Manson ever did anything more terrible than give people LSD and other drugs--with their consent--and then persuade them to do things (which were horrible)...

    The REAL reason Manson is in jail is NOT because of what he did--a LOT of people gave their friends LSD in the 1960s and didn't get life in prison. The REAL reason Manson is in jail is because he was successful in doing--on a shoestring budget, and in less than 2 years--what the CIA had spent tens of millions of dollars and over 2 decades trying to do with absolutely no success--create a successful mind-control technique that would produce programmable killers.

    The government doesn't like competition--especially when the competition is more effective than they are, and rank amateurs to boot...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-17-2011 at 08:57 PM.
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  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Actually, there is no concrete evidence that Manson ever did anything more terrible than give people LSD and other drugs--with their consent--and then persuade them to do things (which were horrible)...
    Well, I'm sorry, but I have a good, current friend who used to work corrections in California, including dealing directly with this guy in incarceration.

    Put simply, I'd heard just a bit different... Probably not admissable in court, though court seems to have far higher standards than do most rational minds.

    The REAL reason Manson is in jail is NOT because of what he did--a LOT of people gave their friends LSD in the 1960s and didn't get life in prison. The REAL reason Manson is in jail is because he was successful in doing--on a shoestring budget, and in less than 2 years--what the CIA had spent tens of millions of dollars and over 2 decades trying to do with absolutely no success--create a successful mind-control technique that would produce programmable killers.

    The government doesn't like competition--especially when the competition is more effective than they are, and rank amateurs to boot...
    I'm sorry, Dreamer, but with this deluded piece of nonsense, you've lost me. Completely. You're right on some points, but you've lost the far bigger picture.

    Dream on.
    Last edited by since9; 01-19-2011 at 06:19 AM.
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