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Thread: I'm going throught California to Arizona

  1. #1
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    I'm going throught California to Arizona

    This week I'm going throught California staying the night in Palm Springs before going on to Yuma.

    I'm looking for some advice on how to carry or store my hand guns while in California.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry NLV View Post
    This week I'm going throught California staying the night in Palm Springs before going on to Yuma.

    I'm looking for some advice on how to carry or store my hand guns while in California.

    Thanks
    From what I've read, the best way is to have them locked up unloaded. And stay away from the schools. If you have a car just lock them up in the trunk. But you can keep a lock box in the passenger compartment also. Your best bet is to check out the CA forum. And if you have Hi-cap mags leave them at home. As you can see by my sig. my everyday carry is XDm40 which is a big no no.
    My wifes grandfather is on his death bed so it looks like I'm going down there in the next week or two for the funeral. I just hope the tripps spring kits come for my 1911 before I have to go. Because if you're limited on the amount of rocks you can throw, throw the biggest you can.
    And of course the disclaimer.......IANAL
    Last edited by Sabotage70; 01-16-2011 at 11:43 PM. Reason: added text
    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Since you'll be traveling through many an unknown school zone while driving distance, I wouldn't advise on attempting UOC (loaded open carry is never legal on roads). Your best bet while traveling is what we call "locked unloaded concealed carry".

    Ammo (including loaded mags) may be in the case, but not in the weapon itself, nor may a round be in the chamber.

    The case needs to fully enclose the weapon, and be "secure" with a lock. The lock needn't be anything special. If your pistol comes with a hard plastic case, a 3-dial combo lock through the locking hole ought to suffice, and be rapidly removable

    Also, just a note, if you remove this case from your car whilst inside a school zone, it may only be "directly to or from a motor vehicle" and any place where you may lawfully possess the handgun (such as a domicile, e.g. hotel room, within the school zone).

  4. #4
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Since you'll be traveling through many an unknown school zone while driving distance, I wouldn't advise on attempting UOC (loaded open carry is never legal on roads). Your best bet while traveling is what we call "locked unloaded concealed carry".

    Ammo (including loaded mags) may be in the case, but not in the weapon itself, nor may a round be in the chamber.

    The case needs to fully enclose the weapon, and be "secure" with a lock. The lock needn't be anything special. If your pistol comes with a hard plastic case, a 3-dial combo lock through the locking hole ought to suffice, and be rapidly removable

    Also, just a note, if you remove this case from your car whilst inside a school zone, it may only be "directly to or from a motor vehicle" and any place where you may lawfully possess the handgun (such as a domicile, e.g. hotel room, within the school zone).
    Just for your information, not sure of other states however open carry is legal on the roads of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona. I have open carryed in all three states on a motorcycle. Nevada and Arizona you can have one in the pipe. In Utah you can have on in the pipe if you have a conceal permit the state recognizes.


    Additional information.

    The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which (motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.

    ANOTHER COMMON MISCONCEPTION IS THE BELIEVE THAT AMMUNITION CANNOT BE STORED IN THE SAME CASE AS A FIREARM, OR THAT IS MUST BE LOCKED UP SEPRATELY SOMEHOW. THIS IS NOT TRUE NO CODE TO SUPPORT THIS MYTH.

    12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is
    temporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
    person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility
    or glove compartment.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 01-20-2011 at 02:26 AM.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Yup. To clarify, the information in my post above was specific to California only. The laws are very different elsewhere.

  6. #6
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Yup. To clarify, the information in my post above was specific to California only. The laws are very different elsewhere.
    Some times what may seems obvious to others in not obvious to me. One of my comprehension battles.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    If it wasn't obvious to you, no doubt it wasn't obvious to others. Thanks for bringing it up; now nobody is confused!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Just for your information, not sure of other states however open carry is legal on the roads of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona. I have open carryed in all three states on a motorcycle. Nevada and Arizona you can have one in the pipe. In Utah you can have on in the pipe if you have a conceal permit the state recognizes.


    Additional information.

    The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which (motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.

    Another common misconception is the belief that ammunition cannot be stored in the same case as a firearm, or that it must be locked up separately somehow. This is not true. There is no code to support this myth.

    12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is
    temporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
    person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility
    or glove compartment.
    To clarify for UTAH, IT IS FULLY LEGAL to carry loaded in or on a vehicle IF you are 18 years or older and either are in lawful possession/control of the vehicle OR have permission of the person in lawful control of the vehicle (for a passenger carrying with some else driving). Just don't get off the bike or out of the car without being UTAH unloaded, No round in the chamber for semi-auto UNLESS you have a permit. And still watch out for both the Federal and UTAH states GFSZ's. Utah is MORE restrictive than Federal in that it includes not only K-12 but also day cares, pre-schools, massage therapy schools, hair cutting or cosmetology or truck driving schools, Colleges and Universities AND anyplace being used by any school for a field trip while the "CHILDREN" are present!-- same 1000 Foot restriction for all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Utah is MORE restrictive than Federal in that it includes not only K-12 but also day cares, pre-schools, massage therapy schools, hair cutting or cosmetology or truck driving schools, Colleges and Universities AND anyplace being used by any school for a field trip while the "CHILDREN" are present!-- same 1000 Foot restriction for all!
    The extra locations are only useful as a tag-on to enhance penalties for some other crime, or if you are already doing something that the cops are going to stop you for. If you are just passing through and not causing a problem, few Utah cops would arrest you, and no prosecutor would push the case. It would lose on appeal, due to lack of required notice that you are within one of those restricted zones.

  10. #10
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    To clarify for UTAH, IT IS FULLY LEGAL to carry loaded in or on a vehicle IF you are 18 years or older and either are in lawful possession/control of the vehicle OR have permission of the person in lawful control of the vehicle (for a passenger carrying with some else driving). Just don't get off the bike or out of the car without being UTAH unloaded, No round in the chamber for semi-auto UNLESS you have a permit. And still watch out for both the Federal and UTAH states GFSZ's. Utah is MORE restrictive than Federal in that it includes not only K-12 but also day cares, pre-schools, massage therapy schools, hair cutting or cosmetology or truck driving schools, Colleges and Universities AND anyplace being used by any school for a field trip while the "CHILDREN" are present!-- same 1000 Foot restriction for all!
    Bless the highly educated lawmakers and lawyers. Able to create their own job security by coming up with a boatload of confusing, complicated, entrenched useless laws with endless interpretations allowing for never ending arguing.

  11. #11
    28kfps
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    I did not make the statement about the highly educated lawmakers and lawyer to make light of the discussions. The discussions have really helped me get a better handle on all the variations of the entrenched confusing useless laws. Just too bad this is what is needed to help clarify what has been declared legal.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    When I go to CA from Nevada, I just stop at the border and unload, then re-holster. Being that I have a NV ID and NV plates, they are going to have a hard time proving that I could possibly know where every school zone is.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    When I go to CA from Nevada, I just stop at the border and unload, then re-holster. Being that I have a NV ID and NV plates, they are going to have a hard time proving that I could possibly know where every school zone is.
    After what happened to Theseus, this seems risky. Risky to the point that, if you were prosecuted, I doubt that defense would do you much good at all. The prosecution would argue that, since ignorance of the law is no excuse, you reasonably should learn about school zones wherever you plan to be carrying a firearm.

    They don't need to prove that you did know or that you "could have possibly known" (by which you really mean, I am not willing to expend the effort to research school zones in my path). The standard is the entirely arbitrary "should have known", which the prosecution and jury could decide, if they like, that you "should" have expended the effort, even though to you and I it seems ridiculous.

    In short, the defense is no defense at all, for any jury who does not wish to acquit you outright. If their inclination is to convict, they will gladly accept the prosecutorial bait, the inevitable argument that you had the obligation to research whatever schools are researchable.

    The jury will be completely free to decide if "reasonably should have known" exempts you from the responsibility to actively research schools at all, or if it exempts you only from schools research could not reasonably have revealed.

    I, personally, would only rely on the "should not reasonably have known" defense in the case of a school where no person would reasonably be able to know the school was present, such as a very small school which is not on any maps or in any directories.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    You do make valid points as I am familiar with prosecution tactics. When I travel through California It is along US95 between Las Vegas and Yuma. Anyone familiar with that region knows it is very rural, and predominately desert. that portion of California is not spelled with a 'K'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    When I go to CA from Nevada, I just stop at the border and unload, then re-holster. Being that I have a NV ID and NV plates, they are going to have a hard time proving that I could possibly know where every school zone is.
    If they can show that your route took you past one SCHOOL ZONE sign, the entire rest of your trip is a violation of the law.

    Remember, the whole idea isn't safety, it's about finding something that they can penali$e you for.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    If they can show that your route took you past one SCHOOL ZONE sign, the entire rest of your trip is a violation of the law.

    Remember, the whole idea isn't safety, it's about finding something that they can penali$e you for.
    Yup.

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    Thank you al lfor your input.

    After reading many post I'm still not really clear on what I can and cannot do.

    So I will be locking my unloaded gun in it's factory case with a small lock on it and storing it in the truck of my Corvette. I will keep the amunition in the front of the car with me and will not have any mags loaded.

    I'm working in Victorville for the day, then spending the night in Palm Springs and going to Arizona the next day.

    I not looking to OC while in California just want to make sure I don't get arrested at say a traffic stop for even having the gun.

    Any input or suggestions would be appriciated.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry NLV View Post
    After reading many post I'm still not really clear on what I can and cannot do.

    So I will be locking my unloaded gun in it's factory case with a small lock on it and storing it in the truck of my Corvette. I will keep the amunition in the front of the car with me and will not have any mags loaded.

    I'm working in Victorville for the day, then spending the night in Palm Springs and going to Arizona the next day.

    I not looking to OC while in California just want to make sure I don't get arrested at say a traffic stop for even having the gun.

    Any input or suggestions would be appriciated.
    Did anybody contradict anything in my post? I had thought I was fairly clear. I guess I was wrong...

    The ammunition may be in the case with the gun. You may have loaded magazines, but those magazines may not be in the gun itself.

    The case does not need to be in the trunk, if the case itself is locked.

    With that said, I cannot personally promise that every, or even any, cop is aware of, or wishes to comply with, the letter of the law. If your sole desire is to avoid arrest, it is possible that separating the mags and putting everything in the trunk might slightly reduce the risk.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-19-2011 at 02:00 PM.

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    thanks again

    Yes my sole purpose is to avoid arrest while in California and get safely to Arizona.

    I'm not go to CA because I want to I have too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Bless the highly educated lawmakers and lawyers. Able to create their own job security by coming up with a boatload of confusing, complicated, entrenched useless laws with endless interpretations allowing for never ending arguing.
    Was someone accusing me of being a lawyer.... I promise, I AM NOT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry NLV View Post
    This week I'm going throught California staying the night in Palm Springs before going on to Yuma.

    I'm looking for some advice on how to carry or store my hand guns while in California.

    Thanks
    You can drive from NLV to Yuma without going into California. Look at a map. I've done it before.

    Go through Laughlin into Bullhead City. You will avoid California altogether. Bear in mind, that the road turns LEFT after bullhead city(look on a map) because if you keep going straight you will end up in Needles, California. Basically, stay on Arizona 95 instead of U.S. 95.

    Arizona 95 will eventually turn back into U.S. 95 near I-10.

    Even if you go through California, you can still bring high cap mags. Don't listen to people on the forum, it says they can't be assembled. So just take the spring out of them. Travel with a 10 round or less mag, keep the pistolunloaded and in plain view, you can still have a loaded mag on you. U.S. 95 should not go through any school zones, even if it did. I know that U.S. 95 to I-40 east into Kingman, Arizona does not pass any school zones.

  22. #22
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Was someone accusing me of being a lawyer.... I promise, I AM NOT!
    Read my next post below the one you are referring to.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry NLV View Post
    I'm working in Victorville for the day, then spending the night in Palm Springs and going to Arizona the next day.
    Uh . . .your most direct way from Victorville to Arizona is out I-40 through Needles.

    Whatever the reason that you'll be in the People's Republic, then:

    1) Lock the gun in a case

    2) Keep the ammo separate

    3) Lock them all in the trunk

    4) If you get stopped, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. If they want to search, tell them "Only if you have a warrant" (you can't get in any worse trouble by demanding a warrant than just letting the cop poke around for his curiosity).

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    2) Keep the ammo separate

    3) Lock them all in the trunk
    To reiterate, these are not required by law. I personally do not do these in California.

  25. #25
    28kfps
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    A common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which (motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.

    ANOTHER COMMON MISCONCEPTION IS THE BELIEVE THAT AMMUNITION CANNOT BE STORED IN THE SAME CASE AS A FIREARM, OR THAT IT MUST BE LOCKED UP SEPRATELY SOMEHOW. THIS IS NOT TRUE NO CODE TO SUPPORT THIS MYTH.

    12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is
    temporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
    person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility
    or glove compartment.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 01-20-2011 at 10:57 PM.

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