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Thread: Do I HAVE to show ID?

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    Do I HAVE to show ID?

    I know when dealing with law enforcement while CCing you are required to show ID and permit. but NC is not a "stop and identify" state. so if I'm stopped and questioned by LEOs while open carrying, do I have to show ID if they ask?

    hypothetical scenario: open carrying pistol on hip while shopping in Wal-mart. out of nowhere LEO stops and questions me about my pistol. what are my rights and requirements to the officer?

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    Regular Member SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP's Avatar
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    Do I HAVE to show ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    I know when dealing with law enforcement while CCing you are required to show ID and permit. but NC is not a "stop and identify" state. so if I'm stopped and questioned by LEOs while open carrying, do I have to show ID if they ask?

    hypothetical scenario: open carrying pistol on hip while shopping in Wal-mart. out of nowhere LEO stops and questions me about my pistol. what are my rights and requirements to the officer?
    Correct me if i am wrong the only you have to show drivers license is when you are operating a motor vehicle..

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    true, thats why i said ID and not DL

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    mattwestm
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    You don't have to show ID unless you are operating a vehicle. That being said, most LEOs will give the typical response "if you aren't doing anything illegal, then just show us your ID". Showing your ID will usually get you on your way quicker, but at a price. I would just tell them that I am doing nothing wrong and that I don't see the need to show my ID, making sure to stay respectful. You shouldn't have any problems in NC, but there are always exceptions.

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    NC is not a stop and ID state, so unless you are operating a vehicle, there's no legal requirement for a DL. If you are CC'ing then photo ID is the law (State ID card, passport, DL, etc.)

    There are normally two schools concerning your inquiry, the easy way and the hard way.

    The easiest way is to give the gubmint official your DL and let him fish around in your background to make sure you're not a bad guy, thus waiving a wad of your constitutional and states rights. This normally takes about 3 minutes and you'll be on your way assuming you're not actually a bad guy.

    The second way (hard way) is to stand on your principles, let the gubmint official threaten you with arrest, detention, etc then call in some more cops. They'll detain you and then get your DL and then discuss how they're gonna handle the situation. Normally this involves calling the ADA or the shift supervisor or magistrate and asking what they are supposed to do. Eventually let you go since the supervisor will eventually tell them they have no reason to hold you. This normally takes anywhere between 10 minutes to an hour, depending on the posse that shows up for the event.

    I've done it both ways. Sometimes I have to be somewhere and just don't have the time to spare for all the BS, other times I'm in the mood for a little entertainment.

  6. #6
    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCjones View Post
    NC is not a stop and ID state, so unless you are operating a vehicle, there's no legal requirement for a DL. If you are CC'ing then photo ID is the law (State ID card, passport, DL, etc.)

    There are normally two schools concerning your inquiry, the easy way and the hard way.

    The easiest way is to give the gubmint official your DL and let him fish around in your background to make sure you're not a bad guy, thus waiving a wad of your constitutional and states rights. This normally takes about 3 minutes and you'll be on your way assuming you're not actually a bad guy.

    The second way (hard way) is to stand on your principles, let the gubmint official threaten you with arrest, detention, etc then call in some more cops. They'll detain you and then get your DL and then discuss how they're gonna handle the situation. Normally this involves calling the ADA or the shift supervisor or magistrate and asking what they are supposed to do. Eventually let you go since the supervisor will eventually tell them they have no reason to hold you. This normally takes anywhere between 10 minutes to an hour, depending on the posse that shows up for the event.

    I've done it both ways. Sometimes I have to be somewhere and just don't have the time to spare for all the BS, other times I'm in the mood for a little entertainment.
    I try to avoid confrontations, so I'd probably just show my ID. If the cop has an attitude, I might go down the second road just to prove a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    I try to avoid confrontations, so I'd probably just show my ID. If the cop has an attitude, I might go down the second road just to prove a point.
    Same here. I usually just show the ID, feel guilty about it for a few days, and hate the fact that I feel like a slave for doing it the easy way.

    One thing I hate is when they take your weapon and run the serial number. Happened to me a few months ago during a traffic stop. I didn't get a ticket but he asked me to step out of the vehicle then told me he was going to "secure my weapon". He took it with him to the patrol car to run my DL so I know he ran the serial No. also.

    I wanted to ask him why he didn't run the serial number on my GPS, stereo, radar detector, laptop, power inverter, etc.

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    I read in another post that I dont have to show ID, but I do have to give them my name and address? is this true?

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    You do not have to show ID if stopped for simply OCing. In fact, you're not supposed to be stopped at all, but if you are, you do not have to produce ID.

    You do however, have to identify yourself if asked. This can be done verbally or by writing it down for them.

    For me it all depends on how cordial the officer is. They want to be a dick, I'll be a dick too- no problem. As long as I am lawfully correct, I have no problem wasting their time as they have done with mine.

    If it's done cordially, I usually have no problem offering my ID- but I always inform them that it is not required so they don't get the idea that it is. Normally, they already know the deal and thank me for my cooperation. I have yet to get into an argument with an LEO which forces me to play the A$$ card.

    Some people will argue with me saying that I have set new standards for them by surrendering my ID when asked. I understand that argument yet simply choose to do it on my own- it's my preference. If ever burnt by the action of showing ID voluntarily I may change my mind on the matter but so far that hasn't been the case.

    I understand that others have had different results and have adjusted their habits accordingly.

  10. #10
    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCjones View Post
    Same here. I usually just show the ID, feel guilty about it for a few days, and hate the fact that I feel like a slave for doing it the easy way.

    One thing I hate is when they take your weapon and run the serial number. Happened to me a few months ago during a traffic stop. I didn't get a ticket but he asked me to step out of the vehicle then told me he was going to "secure my weapon". He took it with him to the patrol car to run my DL so I know he ran the serial No. also.

    I wanted to ask him why he didn't run the serial number on my GPS, stereo, radar detector, laptop, power inverter, etc.
    If an officer ever asked me to let him secure the weapon, I'd say "I'd feel safer if it stayed in the holster and neither of us touched it." I'd be pretty scared to let an officer handle a 1911, or something other than a Glock. Most cops aren't "gun people" and probably don't know how to handle anything other than a Glock or similar handgun.

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    Regular Member billv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    You don't have to show ID unless you are operating a vehicle. That being said, most LEOs will give the typical response "if you aren't doing anything illegal, then just show us your ID". Showing your ID will usually get you on your way quicker, but at a price. I would just tell them that I am doing nothing wrong and that I don't see the need to show my ID, making sure to stay respectful. You shouldn't have any problems in NC, but there are always exceptions.
    So why not respond to the question above with: "If I'm not doing anything illegal, why are you asking for my ID? I will gladly give you my name, address and DOB".

    Or leave out the "If" at the start of the response. Or even leave out that last sentence and add it later depending on their response?
    What part of "shall not be infringed" do *they* not understand?

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    i don't get why they take your gun, can't you just give them the serial number if they feel so inclined? Why they need to physically handle my property is ludacris. Are you required by law to let them secure your weapon?


    I'll show you mine if you show me yours? LOL

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    In moving to NC I have been doing some scanning around picking up info.
    There is a NC law that can be used against a person OC and it goes along the lines of: "carrying a weapon to terrorize" so if a giddy Durham mom saw you she can call the law in her hysterics and claim she is scared because you OC.
    Then be ready to had out all sorts of ID.
    But...I'll choose the hard way.
    cw

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    its called Going Armed to terror of the public, search around this forum for it, there have been a bunch of threads. Basically you have to prove the persons intent to be guilty of it.

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    gattrop or however its spelled.
    stupid little thing, not to fun to deal with but easy enough to beat.

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    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9110e View Post
    i don't get why they take your gun, can't you just give them the serial number if they feel so inclined? Why they need to physically handle my property is ludacris. Are you required by law to let them secure your weapon?


    I'll show you mine if you show me yours? LOL
    I doubt you are required by law, but most cops will unholster and take it without your permission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    You do however, have to identify yourself if asked. This can be done verbally or by writing it down for them.
    Cite please? This sounds a lot like a stop and id statute that does not exist in NC.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    Cite please? This sounds a lot like a stop and id statute that does not exist in NC.
    Aight, gimme a few to find it. I'm pretty sure it's in there somewhere. Hopefully I'm not confusing the issue with laws from a different state.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    I try to avoid confrontations, so I'd probably just show my ID. If the cop has an attitude, I might go down the second road just to prove a point.
    If you want the harassment to stop, stand up for your right to open carry.

    Your tools:

    Sterile open carry.

    Grip tape on your gun (to preseve your guns serial number).

    A voice recorder to record everything they say.

    The nerve to remain silent

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    fág an bealach
    ACTA NON VERBA
    At OCDO there are two things that are not tolerated, open carry intolerance and long gun open carry.
    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    There are no stop and id statutes, to my knowledge, that require you to physically show id. CA used to have one like that but it was struck down in Kolender V Lawson.

    That might be what you're thinking about Rotor. No states require you to carry ID with you at all times, therefore it can't be unlawful not to provide it. In states that do have such statutes, what you described should work.

    But some stop and id statutes go further than simply determining ID of a detainee. Some statutes call for an explanation of your activities. That's a 4th amendment nightmare IMO.

    Regardless of where you are and what stop and id statutes there may be, ALL of these require that you be detained during a "Terry Stop". No officer can legally stop you, frisk you, and demand anything from you unless he or she can explain what crime you were potentially committing or about to commit.

    I've done a lot of research on this, and it is surprisingly difficult to prove that something is legal (not showing / speaking your ID at request of an officer in NC).

    But here is an interesting article tailored to NC, and written by a law firm that specializes in advising police departments across our state:

    http://policehelp.net/pubs/2004/rollcallv3n7.pdf
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  21. #21
    mattwestm
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    Or you could carry a non military handgun made before 1968, before serial numbers were required on firearms. Then you could tell the officer there isn't any need to run the serial because it doesn't exist. The LEO will probably assume that you have illegally modified the gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    If an officer ever asked me to let him secure the weapon, I'd say "I'd feel safer if it stayed in the holster and neither of us touched it." I'd be pretty scared to let an officer handle a 1911, or something other than a Glock. Most cops aren't "gun people" and probably don't know how to handle anything other than a Glock or similar handgun.
    I agree. But by the way he was acting and his tone I didn't feel like it was a request, if you know what I mean. He sorta announced that he was going to do it and grabbed the serpa and pushed the button. I was surprised he actually knew how to work the serpa. At 1 AM I didn't feel like getting into a ******* contest over it. Otherwise he was polite and nice. Since I didn't get the GATTOTP lecture and attitude I let it ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    I read in another post that I dont have to show ID, but I do have to give them my name and address? is this true?
    NC says you have to "identify yourself". The usual way is by name and DOB. They can run a check on you this way. After I give them my name and DOB thats it. I've satisfied that requirement. It's none of his business where I'm going, where I've been, why I'm out at 2 AM, etc. It all depends on the cops attitude. If he's a nice guy I might oblige him. But a azzhole will only get name and DOB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCjones View Post
    NC says you have to "identify yourself". The usual way is by name and DOB. .
    CITE PLEASE!!!!!! This is too common an occurrence for OC'ers and therefore too important to throw stuff like this out there. If NC "says you have to", then you should be able to point to a specific statute that states the same.

    I firmly believe you are wrong, but I can't prove it by somehow showing that the statute doesn't exist.

    So again, CITE PLEASE. It's one of the terms of service of this site and this is one of the times where it matters.

    I have researched this exhaustively, before this thread ever came up so either take my word for it, or prove me wrong. I posted an informative link above, you should all check it out.
    Last edited by Smith45acp; 01-17-2011 at 08:39 PM.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  25. #25
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    There are no stop and id statutes, to my knowledge, that require you to physically show id. CA used to have one like that but it was struck down in Kolender V Lawson.

    That might be what you're thinking about Rotor. No states require you to carry ID with you at all times, therefore it can't be unlawful not to provide it. In states that do have such statutes, what you described should work.

    But some stop and id statutes go further than simply determining ID of a detainee. Some statutes call for an explanation of your activities. That's a 4th amendment nightmare IMO.

    Regardless of where you are and what stop and id statutes there may be, ALL of these require that you be detained during a "Terry Stop". No officer can legally stop you, frisk you, and demand anything from you unless he or she can explain what crime you were potentially committing or about to commit.

    I've done a lot of research on this, and it is surprisingly difficult to prove that something is legal (not showing / speaking your ID at request of an officer in NC).

    But here is an interesting article tailored to NC, and written by a law firm that specializes in advising police departments across our state:

    http://policehelp.net/pubs/2004/rollcallv3n7.pdf
    That may be what I was thinking of but still not sure. I may have been reading a case or something, idk. I'll have to defer and concede the point on this one. I can't for the life of me find it in NC Statutes lol. I was probably reading an opinion of a case or some other reference.

    Thanks for the insight

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