Do I HAVE to show ID?

"I do not consent to any searches, but I will not resist"

I think it usually goes something like that.

aosailor said:

SNIP In my experience most of my encounters with LEOs while OCing they take my gun "for officer safety" and give it back when they are done. are they allowed to do this? do I HAVE to give them my firearm?

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See links for Terry v Ohio and PA v Mimms at the thread linked below. There may be state court decisions in your state that affect the answer.

That was just the legal angle. Then there is the whole tactical side of the equation, starting with the question, "If the cop wants it, is it really wise to refuse to comply or actively resist?"

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Your-4th-and-5th-Amendment-Resources-Here!!&

Thundar said:

If you want the harassment to stop, stand up for your right to open carry.

Your tools:

Sterile open carry.

Grip tape on your gun (to preseve your guns serial number:lol.

A voice recorder to record everything they say.

The nerve to remain silent

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

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Yes. This.

Sc0tt said:

Cant the cops just peel this off if they seize the weapon "for thier saftey" and could you possibly be charged with a crim by conceling it?

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They will do whatever they want, unfortunately. But, if covering your serial is a crime, I'm in violation. Here's my shotgun:





No serial numbers without disassembly, and judging by the police interactions I've had, I would just be happy if they could safely handle a weapon much less take it apart.

My Smith's serial isn't covered though. Came back 10-10 on the 10-29 check though!

LEO not LOE

wabbit said:

involved in a situation in 'make my day colorado' where the 911 would absolutely not dispatch loe to my location as i held a gentleman on the ground w/my FNH pistol. at the direction of 911 operator i released the gentleman from the ground after assuring he was not armed and left the area to meet loe. the loe did sop and i backed up to them w/hands on head, they removed my pistol from my holster which was handed to another loe.

all i heard from behind me was the loe exclaiming...'wow bill you should look at this'...i exclaimed there is one in the chamber!! the loe 'playing' with my pistol kept oh'g and aww'g over the pistol and after further attempts to alert them of the danger, finally stated loudly to the loe holding me, 'if you do not tell him there is a shell in the chamber, i will bring you to your knees and tell him myself!!'

the surprised loe holding me decided i might just do that and said: "jim there is one in the chamber so clear it!" 'Jim' stated...now who leaves one in the chamber?

they gave me back my wallet, cc cert, dl, and firearm(s) and then commented as a group - "we wish more folk had cc certs...when i told them about dispatch they were shocked and agreed to check it out...never hear any more about it...

understand the barney fife mentality more and more and it is truly scary...

wabbit

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Law enforcement officer

wabbit said:

involved in a situation in 'make my day colorado' where the 911 would absolutely not dispatch loe to my location as i held a gentleman on the ground w/my FNH pistol. at the direction of 911 operator i released the gentleman from the ground after assuring he was not armed and left the area to meet loe. the loe did sop and i backed up to them w/hands on head, they removed my pistol from my holster which was handed to another loe.

all i heard from behind me was the loe exclaiming...'wow bill you should look at this'...i exclaimed there is one in the chamber!! the loe 'playing' with my pistol kept oh'g and aww'g over the pistol and after further attempts to alert them of the danger, finally stated loudly to the loe holding me, 'if you do not tell him there is a shell in the chamber, i will bring you to your knees and tell him myself!!'

the surprised loe holding me decided i might just do that and said: "jim there is one in the chamber so clear it!" 'Jim' stated...now who leaves one in the chamber?

they gave me back my wallet, cc cert, dl, and firearm(s) and then commented as a group - "we wish more folk had cc certs...when i told them about dispatch they were shocked and agreed to check it out...never hear any more about it...

understand the barney fife mentality more and more and it is truly scary...

wabbit

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I smell bacon?

Sc0tt said:

Cant the cops just peel this off if they seize the weapon "for thier saftey" and could you possibly be charged with a crim by conceling it?

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IANAL, but I think the illegal act is removing the serial No. or altering it. I have a bottom-mounted laser on one of my pieces that covers up the serial No. I wouldn't think that would be illegal.

And yes, he'd just peel it off. On several occasions when I've been traffic-stopped the cop took my gun back to his car with him "for his safety" while he ran my DL. For all I know he could've totally field stripped it while I was waiting!

Do i have to show id

REDFIVE48 said:

Hard to make that case, since the shoplifter is being charged with a crime where we have done nothing against the law

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I agree with redfive48. Once u commit a crime, id would be required.

I smell bacon

Sc0tt said:

I smell bacon?

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No bacon here, retired military, 25 years worth.

waapl01 said:

I agree with redfive48. Once u commit a crime, id would be required.

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It is required in the case that you were doing something that required ID (Driving requires a DL). Otherwise, I still don't believe a photo ID is required.

Clear somthing up

blah

In regards to a police officer wanting to take your weapon. I have already within my mind decided what I'm going to do there. Remember folks 100% we should be polite to the gentlemen and ladies in uniform even if they don't offer the same respect. That's what they do when you get all ***hole on them.

Keeping hands where they can see them I will show them that there is nothing in my hands and take my left palm and place it on the back of my right hand and grasm and sit there with them relaxed hanging in fron of me. What this does, once the encounter has begun is rest my elbow over the right hand side of my serpa and slide on my 3-4 o'clock holster. That way if they want to take it, usually while asking or making the statement they are already reaching for it. It gives me time to say "I'd rather you didn't, for my safety." But either way the officer is having to make physical contact with me in order to move my arm in order to take teh weapon. Does this do anything for me in my defense? Nope, prolly not. But it makes me feel more justified and better to know that if he was taking my weapon, it was completly against my will.

I don't know how many video's I've seen and I just don't agree with the OCer, but I'm not going to tell them they are wrong, you can do what you want with your weapon. But several show police walk up and say "Hey, mind if I take that." or the like. No protest. Or "yeah, go ahead." I've got issues with that. When they say hey let me see your ID they don't reach in your pocket and take your wallet, not unless you have cuffs on then you are just b*n*d anyway. Or my kid, won't walk up and just take my kid from my arms. My property, wanna take it, slap them cuffs on me. Legality for every time they do that, probably not. But at least if you want me to feel like a defensless citizen, do it right.

Clear somthing up

I know its been 4.5 months since someone posted in this thread but Im looking somthing up for a friend and need to clear somthing up and did not fell like starting a new thread to do it.

We are clear that North Carolina has no Stop and Identify Statutes, you are not required in a concentual encounter or a terry stop to show ID to an officer, however I keep hearing that you do have to provide you name and DOB when asked, Not always in the form of ID you may tell the officer.

Can anyone cite this or back this up?

Sc0tt said:

Clear somthing up

I know its been 4.5 months since someone posted in this thread but Im looking somthing up for a friend and need to clear somthing up and did not fell like starting a new thread to do it.

We are clear that North Carolina has no Stop and Identify Statutes, you are not required in a concentual encounter or a terry stop to show ID to an officer, however I keep hearing that you do have to provide you name and DOB when asked, Not always in the form of ID you may tell the officer.

Can anyone cite this or back this up?

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Just read this: http://policehelp.net/pubs/2004/rollcallv3n7.pdf

There is no requirement to show ID, or to even state your name and address. I can tell you from personal experience that if you refuse to concede your 4A rights you may still be charged with a crime, handcuffed, dragged downtown, be held under a $1,500 cash bond, and about 8 hours later post and walk. Oh did I mention you might not get your firearm back until the case is resolved?

For me it was NCGS 14-223; Resist, Delay, or Obstruct a Public Officer. Will this stick? I HIGHLY doubt it, my attorney HIGHLY doubts it, and even the DA is wondering what else MUST have been going on for this charge to have been hanged on me, but with all the bureaucracy involved we have yet to all make it in the same room at the same time to discuss. But I should know for sure very soon, and details will follow (talk about delaying, this arrest was in December and it's still yet to be put in front of a judge).

Here is one on GS 14-223 (R,D,O): http://www.policehelp.net/pubs/ralph/RandRjune1_05.pdf
You see, IF NC had a stop and ID statute, and you refused to comply, you would be obstructing the officer from performing that portion of his or her duty. Without such a statute, the prosecution fails (I'm praying!)

Not much else I can give for details right now, but once the criminal case is settled I will be happy to share all the gory details for the edification of anyone interested.

They tend to use NCGS 14-223 alot I also have a pending charge of it (for a different reason). Thanks for the info and best of luck

Smith45acp said:

For me it was NCGS 14-223; Resist, Delay, or Obstruct a Public Officer. Will this stick? I HIGHLY doubt it, my attorney HIGHLY doubts it, and even the DA is wondering what else MUST have been going on for this charge to have been hanged on me, but with all the bureaucracy involved we have yet to all make it in the same room at the same time to discuss. But I should know for sure very soon, and details will follow (talk about delaying, this arrest was in December and it's still yet to be put in front of a judge).

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Sc0tt said:

They tend to use NCGS 14-223 alot I also have a pending charge of it (for a different reason). Thanks for the info and best of luck

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Around here its used quite often and sticks. The ADA's and DA's will prosecute this charge and do so on a regular basis.