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Thread: Complaint filed against Long Beach Police over Open Carry incident.

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC KIMBER's Avatar
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    Complaint filed against Long Beach Police over Open Carry incident.

    Complaint filed against Long Beach Police over Open Carry incident.

    http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-an...ncident-part-1

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Is this a complaint with the LBPD or a lawsuit complaint? I'm assuming the former.

    I'll give my brief analysis of the video: Part 1 Part 2

    First thing that jumps out is that you didn't consent to anything other than the 12031(e) check, but the officer didn't hear you, so when you repeated yourself and say you don't consent to any searches. It's good that you corrected this minor error. If you consent to 12031(e) then you can't challenge its constitutionality in court because both parties agree to the action.

    Second thing that jumps out is you providing your ID. I say this fairly regularly when people get bullied by police officers, but if you're going to open carry, you should be willing to get arrested. He said you were detained, you should have asked for suspicion of what crime. If he said the carrying of an illegal weapon or something along those lines then stop talking and assert your right to remain silence. If they want to arrest you for not doing something you are not obligated to do, then that's great for you. True, you'll miss dinner and your friend might be upset, but you have video of them violating your rights so you will easily win a lawsuit against them.

    Just to reiterate this point, we should all be extremely happy when we are capturing video and audio of a police officer willingly violating our rights. Just sit back and smile and remain silent. Let them arrest you.

    If you're not willing to get arrested, then everything learned from your study of the law is pretty useless. You know what your rights are and what the law is, but you're letting somebody who is either uninformed or intentionally lying to you make your knowledge useless.

    Third thing that jumps out is the amount of talking you are doing. I also say this a bunch, but don't say anything to police. We all know we shouldn't talk to cops but everybody does it. Just stare at them. Imagine everything they are saying equates to them asking to participate in a staring contest. Whistle a song or bite your fingernails or do anything other than talk to them.

    Something that isn't in the video but that I think is the case is that police complaints are only around to prevent lawsuits. Think about how useful it would be if we had a personal complaint system. "I kidnapped your husband for 20 minutes, if you don't like it, please write a letter to my wife who handles complaints of this matter." You think anybody would bother with writing that letter to my wife? What's gonna happen? She's gonna say, "Hey, did you kidnap this guy? Oh, you did? That's not nice." Justice served? Now having said all this, I wouldn't file a lawsuit in this case because of the amount of talking you did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Is this a complaint with the LBPD or a lawsuit complaint? I'm assuming the former.

    I'll give my brief analysis of the video: Part 1 Part 2

    First thing that jumps out is that you didn't consent to anything other than the 12031(e) check, but the officer didn't hear you, so when you repeated yourself and say you don't consent to any searches. It's good that you corrected this minor error. If you consent to 12031(e) then you can't challenge its constitutionality in court because both parties agree to the action.

    Second thing that jumps out is you providing your ID. I say this fairly regularly when people get bullied by police officers, but if you're going to open carry, you should be willing to get arrested. He said you were detained, you should have asked for suspicion of what crime. If he said the carrying of an illegal weapon or something along those lines then stop talking and assert your right to remain silence. If they want to arrest you for not doing something you are not obligated to do, then that's great for you. True, you'll miss dinner and your friend might be upset, but you have video of them violating your rights so you will easily win a lawsuit against them.

    Just to reiterate this point, we should all be extremely happy when we are capturing video and audio of a police officer willingly violating our rights. Just sit back and smile and remain silent. Let them arrest you.

    If you're not willing to get arrested, then everything learned from your study of the law is pretty useless. You know what your rights are and what the law is, but you're letting somebody who is either uninformed or intentionally lying to you make your knowledge useless.

    Third thing that jumps out is the amount of talking you are doing. I also say this a bunch, but don't say anything to police. We all know we shouldn't talk to cops but everybody does it. Just stare at them. Imagine everything they are saying equates to them asking to participate in a staring contest. Whistle a song or bite your fingernails or do anything other than talk to them.

    Something that isn't in the video but that I think is the case is that police complaints are only around to prevent lawsuits. Think about how useful it would be if we had a personal complaint system. "I kidnapped your husband for 20 minutes, if you don't like it, please write a letter to my wife who handles complaints of this matter." You think anybody would bother with writing that letter to my wife? What's gonna happen? She's gonna say, "Hey, did you kidnap this guy? Oh, you did? That's not nice." Justice served? Now having said all this, I wouldn't file a lawsuit in this case because of the amount of talking you did.

    this happened to me, except they cuffed me, told me i was detained, took everything out of my pocket... my ID. How would I be able to video record them. If they had found my voice recorder strapped to my nuts, they would confiscate that and pull out the battery. How would anyone fight this if the police take everything that could prove them guilty?

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Is this a complaint with the LBPD or a lawsuit complaint? I'm assuming the former.

    I'll give my brief analysis of the video: Part 1 Part 2

    First thing that jumps out is that you didn't consent to anything other than the 12031(e) check, but the officer didn't hear you, so when you repeated yourself and say you don't consent to any searches. It's good that you corrected this minor error. If you consent to 12031(e) then you can't challenge its constitutionality in court because both parties agree to the action.

    Second thing that jumps out is you providing your ID. I say this fairly regularly when people get bullied by police officers, but if you're going to open carry, you should be willing to get arrested. He said you were detained, you should have asked for suspicion of what crime. If he said the carrying of an illegal weapon or something along those lines then stop talking and assert your right to remain silence. If they want to arrest you for not doing something you are not obligated to do, then that's great for you. True, you'll miss dinner and your friend might be upset, but you have video of them violating your rights so you will easily win a lawsuit against them.

    Just to reiterate this point, we should all be extremely happy when we are capturing video and audio of a police officer willingly violating our rights. Just sit back and smile and remain silent. Let them arrest you.

    If you're not willing to get arrested, then everything learned from your study of the law is pretty useless. You know what your rights are and what the law is, but you're letting somebody who is either uninformed or intentionally lying to you make your knowledge useless.

    Third thing that jumps out is the amount of talking you are doing. I also say this a bunch, but don't say anything to police. We all know we shouldn't talk to cops but everybody does it. Just stare at them. Imagine everything they are saying equates to them asking to participate in a staring contest. Whistle a song or bite your fingernails or do anything other than talk to them.

    Something that isn't in the video but that I think is the case is that police complaints are only around to prevent lawsuits. Think about how useful it would be if we had a personal complaint system. "I kidnapped your husband for 20 minutes, if you don't like it, please write a letter to my wife who handles complaints of this matter." You think anybody would bother with writing that letter to my wife? What's gonna happen? She's gonna say, "Hey, did you kidnap this guy? Oh, you did? That's not nice." Justice served? Now having said all this, I wouldn't file a lawsuit in this case because of the amount of talking you did.
    Great advice keep up the good work.

    We have something in the works. It may not be hard hitting but its better then nothing. Stay tuned. Once I get the green light ill share it with everyone.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    this happened to me, except they cuffed me, told me i was detained, took everything out of my pocket... my ID. How would I be able to video record them. If they had found my voice recorder strapped to my nuts, they would confiscate that and pull out the battery. How would anyone fight this if the police take everything that could prove them guilty?
    You can either carry a video recorder on a lanyard on your neck, or in a clear conference badge holder around your neck, or in your pocket with the lens sticking out, or have a friendly witness carry the video recorder. If the police remove the battery on a recording device the data is still there. If they delete the recording the data is still there (just don't use the device until the data can be recovered).

    In a scenario like the OP's, by talking about how wrong the police are and citing cases that they are violating you are giving them tips on what to research prior to writing their report. If you sit there like a mute and give them nothing to go on, they might think you're incredibly smart or incredibly dumb. Either way, they don't have a list of court cases to research and learn the loopholes about. After their report is written, they are going to attempt to stick to the facts they THEY wrote about. So if they took your ID from your wallet and they said so, that's great. If they take your ID from your wallet and you say, "this isn't a stop and identify state, and without RAS you cannot ask me for ID even if this were a stop and identify state, see Hiibel v. Sixth District Court of Nevada" then they certainly won't be writing that they took your ID, they'll ask you if you have a recording device (and since you're so talkative you'll answer), and if you don't have one then they'll write in their report that you provided ID.

    Don't believe a case can be won without full video and audio recording? See St. John v. McColley coming out of New Mexico. He sued, the facts of what happened weren't in dispute, and the police department paid him $21,000 for their mistake. It would only take a few cases of police losing in court for detaining an open carrier without RAS for it to stop happening. We're encouraging police to infringe upon our rights whenever we help them mitigate their willful civil rights violations.

  6. #6
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    For recording and streaming directly from a camera, I've found this to be helpful and interesting:

    http://www.eye.fi/

    Streaming directly from your camera at Starbucks, that way it's already backed up and they can delete to their hearts content!

    -MH
    Last edited by March Hare; 01-17-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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    Listen to Bigtoe!

    The URL below is a video clip that most of us have seen before.

    It is worth watching again. A defense attorney and detective tell you why you never talk to police.

    The defense attorney and detective are very good at proving their point.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    markm

  8. #8
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnetc9 View Post
    this happened to me, except they cuffed me, told me i was detained, took everything out of my pocket... my ID. How would I be able to video record them. If they had found my voice recorder strapped to my nuts, they would confiscate that and pull out the battery. How would anyone fight this if the police take everything that could prove them guilty?
    Porc 411 + Cell phone disguised as a hearing aid.

    If they take it away, speak very loudly and ask them for your "aid" back.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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