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Thread: Fox News National Picks Up on OC Debate & Coming to Local Meetup Thursday

  1. #1
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Fox News National Picks Up on OC Debate & Coming to Local Meetup Thursday

    The mass shooting in Tucson last weekend is fueling the gun control debate in neighboring California, with an advocacy organization renewing a push to prohibit firearms in restaurants and state lawmakers taking up a bill that would end the state's open-carry law.


    They even mention our upcoming Third Thursday dinner:
    Arntzen said a similar protest is set for Jan. 20 at a local pizza parlor. She praised the state legislature for taking up the open-carry bill, but said the Brady Campaign would not wait for lawmakers to crack down on guns in restaurants.
    We'd love to have as many of you as possible come to our dinner this Thursday to show our support for open carry in the presence of the protesters and sure to be present news crews!

    7pm, Manhattan Beach, CA
    Please RSVP if you can http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=187044064645007

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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    They even mention our upcoming Third Thursday dinner:


    We'd love to have as many of you as possible come to our dinner this Thursday to show our support for open carry in the presence of the protesters and sure to be present news crews!

    7pm, Manhattan Beach, CA
    Please RSVP if you can http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=187044064645007
    [/COLOR][/LEFT]
    I would love to go! But I work at 3am and it's an hour and a half drive, if it was Friday night, i'd be there!!

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Will you guys be open carrying inside and outside the restruant ? I would like to come.
    Not sure what you are asking... I don't think they have outdoor seating, but it might be standing room only, who knows, depends on how many show up.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Are you staying at the restruant or walking around the city as well ?
    Just staying at the restaurant.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    I realize that we don't share the same strategies, but i think I would be inclined to decentralize...and/or have more than one venue.

    This will throw the Bradys off the scent and diffuse the confrontational nature of a counter protest.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I realize that we don't share the same strategies, but i think I would be inclined to decentralize...and/or have more than one venue.

    This will throw the Bradys off the scent and diffuse the confrontational nature of a counter protest.
    "counter protest"?

    They are the only protest.

    This was not an event designed to stir controversy. We have been having these monthly dinner meet-ups for some time without any problems.

    The point of the dinner is to support pro-2A businesses and visit with family and friends.

    If the Brady's want to stalk our website and protest, that's their 1st amendment right.

    To say or even hint that us gathering as friends and family, at a location pre-approved by the owner, to have dinner together is us protesting or controversial is plain silly.

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    "counter protest"?

    They are the only protest.

    This was not an event designed to stir controversy. We have been having these monthly dinner meet-ups for some time without any problems.

    The point of the dinner is to support pro-2A businesses and visit with family and friends.

    If the Brady's want to stalk our website and protest, that's their 1st amendment right.

    To say or even hint that us gathering as friends and family, at a location pre-approved by the owner, to have dinner together is us protesting or controversial is plain silly.
    Unless you can influence the message the media outlets put out there (or the message they recieve from you and your members), you are whatever the media says you are. If they percieve that you are protesting, that is what they will tell their readers and viewers. By publically announcing the venues, you are inviting the Brady Campaign to engage you on equal footing. This creates controversy which immediately after the Tuscon shooting and the filing of AB144, is very attractive to the media. Having the media and the Brady Campaign and the local police attend your monthly meetings changes unloaded open carry from something that ordinary people can do, into something that people percieve as an attempt to achieve a reaction with. What people see on the news is what a hassle it must be to open carry. While to some degree it is, this does nothing to convince new participants to join.

    I do not believe inviting the Brady Campaign to your monthly meetings is beneficial. While they draw media attention to the movement, they have the capability of steering public opinion with their emotional and specious arguements. Unless you intend to reciprocate by attending and disrupting their public meetings, I believe these battles represent a war of attrition.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  8. #8
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Getting a UOC/BRADY/MEDIA circus mess to occur at businesses is a sure way to get the support of businesses...

    You are playing into Brady's play book by getting the media involved and giving their irrelevance a platform and giving the ban steam which we don't need.
    Last edited by cato; 01-18-2011 at 04:16 PM.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    I think Fixed News is stirring the pot for a story.

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    At first, I figured it would be just fine to piss off the Brady bunch a bit, but after reading some of the comments, I now realize it's probably not the greatest idea. It may hurt the cause more than help.
    Maybe you should throw off the Brady bunch and media and make a last minute change of venue.

  11. #11
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmattedgex View Post
    At first, I figured it would be just fine to piss off the Brady bunch a bit, but after reading some of the comments, I now realize it's probably not the greatest idea. It may hurt the cause more than help.
    Maybe you should throw off the Brady bunch and media and make a last minute change of venue.
    The point is to support pro-2a businesses that we have already pre-arranged this with.

    Changing time/location is damn near impossible unless its just you and your buddy. Inevitably someone will show up at the location and wonder where the heck everyone is.

    We've had brady at one of our past events, we actually get better results because we get media coverage that brings out tons more people to our cause.

    You are welcome to not show up to the event if you disagree.

    Its not like they are going to introduce ANOTHER AB144 because we have dinner as a group.

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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Mis post
    Last edited by Northerner; 01-18-2011 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Really a question in the AZ Forum....
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    I can see both sides of the argument, their are positives and negatives, at this point AB144 is going forward so changing venues and telling people to spread out isnt going to work well at this restaurant, the Bradys will probably get 3-4 people to show like always or maybe they have rallied the troops and can get 6-8 maybe even 10.

    I have an alternate suggestion that may be a more powerful message and we can use the media against the Bradys, Simply pack the restauarant with Open Carriers, but only have a few people open carrying.

    As an example maybe a dozen or so maybe less maybe more(8-14ish), but every other UOC'r that shows up just show up not carrying and look like average joe citizens(no gun tshirts or hats). And just be ready willing and able to talk to the media about how they feel about being in a restaurant full of lawful gun owners. Have them confornt the Bradys stupidity and fear mongering. The media wants citizens reaction, so stack the restaurant with plain looking citizens willing to call the Bradys outright fear mongerers and stupid. If the media gets loads and loads of supportive people for UOC, they will have a hard time getting someone not wearing a Brady Tshirt to agree with insanity.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    I can see both sides of the argument, their are positives and negatives, at this point AB144 is going forward so changing venues and telling people to spread out isnt going to work well at this restaurant, the Bradys will probably get 3-4 people to show like always or maybe they have rallied the troops and can get 6-8 maybe even 10.

    I have an alternate suggestion that may be a more powerful message and we can use the media against the Bradys, Simply pack the restauarant with Open Carriers, but only have a few people open carrying.

    As an example maybe a dozen or so maybe less maybe more(8-14ish), but every other UOC'r that shows up just show up not carrying and look like average joe citizens(no gun tshirts or hats). And just be ready willing and able to talk to the media about how they feel about being in a restaurant full of lawful gun owners. Have them confornt the Bradys stupidity and fear mongering. The media wants citizens reaction, so stack the restaurant with plain looking citizens willing to call the Bradys outright fear mongerers and stupid. If the media gets loads and loads of supportive people for UOC, they will have a hard time getting someone not wearing a Brady Tshirt to agree with insanity.

    I like it in theory, getting that to execute without it backfiring is the challenge.
    We are not a secretive organization, all our communications are public. The fact that this is even posted here makes it possible for antis to look at this and try to claim any citizen at an event has been staged.

    I also don't want to be accused of "staging" events. However, if someone does not feel comfortable OCing at the event but supports the cause and wants to show up unarmed and talk to the media, more power to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    The point is to support pro-2a businesses that we have already pre-arranged this with.

    Changing time/location is damn near impossible unless its just you and your buddy. Inevitably someone will show up at the location and wonder where the heck everyone is.

    Its not like they are going to introduce ANOTHER AB144 because we have dinner as a group.
    That is very true

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    The problem is in order to move a dialogue forward you need opposing views and discussion and national media coverage to spread the word to as many people possible.

    The National media mostly sides with Brady, but peoples response and reaction and comments are not supporting that now like 15 years ago, so that wind is slowly changing

    Its the people that are in the middle on this issue that need to be persuaded to lean to pro gun side, thats the ones that will respond to fact reason and logic, it will just take time to beat the propoganda out of their heads and to get more local media to influence national media. Just have to keep putting the word out on the street and using social networking to be an effective means of organizing people. Tunisia's revolution is being called the Facebook revolution for a reason.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I'm tentative on the Event page. Are there any schools to worry about in proximity along Artesia Blvd from the 405?
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    one side arm or two

    hay harley. you know ill be there. but i just need to know, one side arm or TWO ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry worth View Post
    hay harley. you know ill be there. but i just need to know, one side arm or TWO ?
    why limit it to two? lamo

  20. #20
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    I'm tentative on the Event page. Are there any schools to worry about in proximity along Artesia Blvd from the 405?
    There are schools everywhere.

    You can plot your course using our interactive map:
    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/maps/

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    f&cking ridiculous. It's a pain in the arsenal to have to park (I'll be riding), take my firearm out of my backpack, then strap up. So much easier to just leave it in the holster & ride. I may or may not just plot a path AWAY from whatever schools might be there. I haven't checked the maps. I really don't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    There are schools everywhere.

    You can plot your course using our interactive map:
    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/maps/
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  22. #22
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    f&cking ridiculous. It's a pain in the arsenal to have to park (I'll be riding), take my firearm out of my backpack, then strap up. So much easier to just leave it in the holster & ride. I may or may not just plot a path AWAY from whatever schools might be there. I haven't checked the maps. I really don't want to.
    Welcome to urban CA.. LOL

    A couple guys ride to our events. Just strap on in the restroom when you get here. There will be plenty of people armed to cover you while you holster up

  23. #23
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    I realize there is more than one way to do things, but when I was organizing monthly meetups, I tried to keep the news media away from our gatherings. I felt it important to simply present ourselves as normal everyday folks with similar interests just getting together. You know..."hey this is no big deal, people do this all over the country, why should CA be any different." I actually had reporters contact me asking to attend and I said "No thank you."

    I say this only to caution those who would go simply because a news media outlet is going to be there. Open carry is not about getting your moment in the news, its about rights...the restoration of rights actually. So if your (speaking generally, not to anyone specifically) primary motivating factor is to get on the Factor then you'll just screw it up for everybody.

    And I do agree with Harley, to NOT open carry because of AB144 (like AB1934 last year) is to already lose the fight. Carry on!

    And for what its worth, the best reaction the news media could possibly capture is that of the business owner telling his/her story about how happy they are for having the open carriers there, how safe their restaruant is, and how much business open carriers can bring to other proprietors if they would only respect the rights of the people as they do.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    I have organized SBOC in a way that we have a public information officer and myself who are very capable of talking professionally and concisely to the press. SBOC participants know that if they have any question about what to say, to simply decline statement and redirect to myself or Peter.

    Using this method, we have successfully educated thousands of Californians about their right to open carry through the media coverage we have received in the Los Angeles area. While not everyone may agree with what our message is, the fact is they know it is legal and don't call the police when we go out to events. That is a win.

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    On our way!

    I looked up the location and see a church school. Any idea how close?!



    Edit at 1755

    After looking at their website it looks like only a church that holds youth groups.
    Last edited by ryanburbridge; 01-20-2011 at 08:55 PM.

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