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Thread: Letter the antis were handing out at lobby day.

  1. #1
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    Letter the antis were handing out at lobby day.

    http://i52.tinypic.com/5v2d1y.jpg

    "84.6%* of Virginians support changing the law to require..."

    An explanation of the percentage and where it came from was never found. You would think they would include that, especially since they asterisked it? Maybe it was on another page.. Upon reading it now though, I take it to mean 84.6% of the family members of those shot at Virginia Tech who are also Virginians support changing private sale requirements.



    Left space to sign her name and didn't even do it. Pft.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    http://i52.tinypic.com/5v2d1y.jpg

    "84.6%* of Virginians support changing the law to require..."

    An explanation of the percentage and where it came from was never found. You would think they would include that, especially since they asterisked it? Maybe it was on another page.. Upon reading it now though, I take it to mean 84.6% of the family members of those shot at Virginia Tech who are also Virginians support changing private sale requirements.



    Left space to sign her name and didn't even do it. Pft.
    Hmmm 86.4% is a rather precise number.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  3. #3
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    86.4% Agreement

    If the question were phrased: Do you agree that felons and the mentally ill should be prevented from accessing firearms, you might get that number.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    I hate that I share a last name with that woman.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I sent her a message on Facebook asking her.. lol
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Lori Hass claims that background checks save lives. Private sales of firearms are exempt from such checks in Virginia. Thus there is a risk that unstable people could obtain firearms via private sales.

    So let's require all firearms sales be conditional on the successful completion of a background check on the buyer. All buyers would then undergo a background check. But all the buyers of firearms that were used in mass shootings did undergo a background check, and were cleared for the purchase. Those lives were not saved.

    So the background check is inadequate. But they continue.

  7. #7
    Regular Member frankd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I sent her a message on Facebook asking her.. lol
    You have made my "Awesome List" for the day!
    frankd
    "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Well it seems they have a lot of support on their Facebook 33 people like them..... You guys better watch out.....Hehe

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Well it seems they have a lot of support on their Facebook 33 people like them..... You guys better watch out.....Hehe
    Smoke and mirrors - they're not that large. Probably multiple sock puppets.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    I find it saddening this group was trying to use martin luther king jr day to push their anti-gun agenda, when king himself was a supporter of the 2nd amendment and the right of people to defend themselves. Not only that, he had armed individuals protecting his home around the clock. He had a gun inside his home, but was not allowed to carry it, because he was unconstitutionally denied a permit to carry.

    Almost makes me want to post on their page, but i'd rather not give them the gratification of another number that would look like a supporter.
    Last edited by vaeevictiss; 01-18-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    84.6% of all statistics are made up.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I "Like"d them. Know your enemy!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I "Like"d them. Know your enemy!
    If you look at the members, several others I think are also not really supporters. My suggestion is after checking it out and leaving whatever messages you desire, unlike them. Much like hanging out at an anti rally you run the risk of inflating their numbers and inadvertently help them.

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMeVa View Post
    If you look at the members, several others I think are also not really supporters. My suggestion is after checking it out and leaving whatever messages you desire, unlike them. Much like hanging out at an anti rally you run the risk of inflating their numbers and inadvertently help them.
    +1
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    You would think they would include that, especially since they asterisked it?
    *we pulled this number out of our behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    but was not allowed to carry it, because he was unconstitutionally denied a permit to carry.
    You mean, "unconstitutionally required to purchase a permit to exercise a right"

  17. #17
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    CNU cooked the books

    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    *we pulled this number out of our behind.
    The Ass happens to be taxpayer-funded Christopher Newport University, which conducted a statewide survey of 1,097 adults called between Dec. 14-19.

    Here is the RTD article:

    According to a Christopher Newport University statewide survey of 1,097 adults called between Dec. 14-19.

    ...

    Those surveyed overwhelmingly support closing the so-called gun-show loophole, 84.6 percent to 14.1 percent.

    In Virginia, a person buying a gun from a licensed dealer must go through a criminal background check. A person purchasing a weapon from a private seller at a gun show, however, does not.

    "That's where criminals get their guns," said Chip Barker, a lawyer from Abingdon.

    In past sessions Democrats have tried to require everyone to undergo a background check, but Republicans have blocked the effort.

    ...

    Methodology:

    This poll was designed and analyzed by Quentin Kidd of the Wason Center for Public Policy at Christopher Newport University. The results of this poll are based on landline telephone (82.5%) and cell phone (17.5%) interviews between Dec. 14 and Dec. 19 of adults age 18 and older who live in Virginia. Live interviewing and sampling was conducted by the Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion. The final number of completed surveys in the sample was 1,097 with a resulting margin of error of +/- 3.0% at the 95% level of confidence. However, the margin of error for some sub groups (including Democrats and women) is larger due to smaller sample sizes. In addition to sampling error, the other potential sources of error include non-response, question wording, and interviewer error. The response rate for the survey was 31%. Ten callbacks were employed in the fielding process. The data reported here are weighted on sex, age, race and region of residence to reflect as closely as possible the demographic composition of adults 18 and older in Virginia. Percentages may not equal 100 due to rounding.
    Here is the actual question that Kidd used:

    Page 4:
    q20. Under Virginia law, in order for an individual to be able to purchase a firearm at a gun show from a licensed firearms dealer, that individual must first pass a criminal background check. However, that same individual could purchase a firearm at that same gun show from an unlicensed seller without first having to pass a criminal background check. Some people want the law to be changed so that anyone purchasing a firearm at a gun show will have to pass a criminal background check. Which comes closest to your view, should the law be changed so that anyone purchasing a firearm at a gun show has to pass a criminal background check first or is the law ok as it currently is?

    Change law: 84.6%
    Keep law as is: 14.1%
    Not sure/refused (vol.) 1.3%
    Note: the word 'unlicensed' was underlined in the survey itself.

    Who is Chip Barker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    You mean, "unconstitutionally required to purchase a permit to exercise a right"
    Good point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    The Ass happens to be taxpayer-funded Christopher Newport University, which conducted a statewide survey of 1,097 adults called between Dec. 14-19.

    Here is the RTD article:



    Here is the actual question that Kidd used:

    Page 4:


    Note: the word 'unlicensed' was underlined in the survey itself.

    Who is Chip Barker?
    I prefer to get my statistics from the US Dept of Justice/FBI, which usually has less of a bias one way or another than a university. A DOJ study (using actual facts rather than opinions) concluded that less than 5% of all firearms recovered from criminals were purchased at a gun show. Most were stolen or purchased illegally.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    A DOJ study (using actual facts rather than opinions) concluded that less than 5% of all firearms recovered from criminals were purchased at a gun show. Most were stolen or purchased illegally.
    And, as I recall, didn't specify how many of those <5% were purchased following a background check...

    Roscoe
    Last edited by roscoe13; 01-18-2011 at 04:44 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    A serious question

    It must be terribly frustrating to be an anti-gunner. In all reality, they are spending what seems to be the vast majority of their efforts on what they likely perceive to be the "low-hanging fruit" of the "gun show loophole", but as anyone can see, they simply aren't getting any traction, at least not so far.

    My question is this... surely they can read a statistic, they have to know that only a very small number of criminals are using gun shows to get guns... why don't they come up with something that is more significant to hang their flag on?

    Anybody know? Anybody who does know, willing to admit they have figured out why they are thinking the way they are?

    TFred

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It must be terribly frustrating to be an anti-gunner. In all reality, they are spending what seems to be the vast majority of their efforts on what they likely perceive to be the "low-hanging fruit" of the "gun show loophole", but as anyone can see, they simply aren't getting any traction, at least not so far.

    My question is this... surely they can read a statistic, they have to know that only a very small number of criminals are using gun shows to get guns... why don't they come up with something that is more significant to hang their flag on?

    Anybody know? Anybody who does know, willing to admit they have figured out why they are thinking the way they are?

    TFred
    All of their low hanging fruit has rotted. Needing to justify their own existence with something, anything, they shake the same branches and get the same results.

    To acknowledge that they were/are wrong is to diminish their own self worth.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    I prefer to get my statistics from the US Dept of Justice/FBI, which usually has less of a bias one way or another than a university. A DOJ study (using actual facts rather than opinions) concluded that less than 5% of all firearms recovered from criminals were purchased at a gun show. Most were stolen or purchased illegally.
    Do you have a link to this statistic? Maybe Ed could share this information with Ms. Haas.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    Do you have a link to this statistic? Maybe Ed could share this information with Ms. Haas.
    I know the OCDO rule of backing claims with facts/links, but if I can find it I'll post it. I've done a lot of research this past semester using the FBI Uniform Crime Report but I don't think that's where I saw it.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    I know the OCDO rule of backing claims with facts/links, but if I can find it I'll post it. I've done a lot of research this past semester using the FBI Uniform Crime Report but I don't think that's where I saw it.

    • A Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) report on “Firearms Use by Offenders” found that fewer than 1% of U.S. “crime guns” came from gun shows, with repeat offenders even less likely than first-timers to buy guns from any retail source. This 2001 study was based on interviews with 18,000 state prison inmates and is the largest such study ever conducted by the government.
    http://www.nraila.org/issues/factshe...=247&issue=014
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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