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Thread: Mapping app?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    Mapping app?

    Hello all,
    I just joined and just made my first OC outing today to Burger King! Working on my CC permit, but in the mean time, exploring the unfamiliar territory that is OC. So, here's an idea. I'd love to develop an app for various smart phone platforms that would map the 1,000 ft. exclusion zones around school property lines so those of us without permits could more easily assure compliance. If there's interest, I will pursue this, so please let me know if you might find this useful. Not planning on charging anything at the moment.
    As an example of how it might work...you're out and about and going to leave your car. Not sure if there's a school nearby that might pose a problem so you start up the app. It accesses positioning info and shows your position on a map as usual, only there would be clearly defined school locations/exclusion zones displayed. Then, you'd have a better idea how to proceed.

    Thanks all, and have a great day!
    Mike

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Awsome sounding

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hopkins View Post
    Hello all,
    I just joined and just made my first OC outing today to Burger King! Working on my CC permit, but in the mean time, exploring the unfamiliar territory that is OC. So, here's an idea. I'd love to develop an app for various smart phone platforms that would map the 1,000 ft. exclusion zones around school property lines so those of us without permits could more easily assure compliance. If there's interest, I will pursue this, so please let me know if you might find this useful. Not planning on charging anything at the moment.
    As an example of how it might work...you're out and about and going to leave your car. Not sure if there's a school nearby that might pose a problem so you start up the app. It accesses positioning info and shows your position on a map as usual, only there would be clearly defined school locations/exclusion zones displayed. Then, you'd have a better idea how to proceed.

    Thanks all, and have a great day!
    Mike
    You know to me this sounds like a great idea and would work for people that don't know the area like myself and if there was a way that you could put some type of proximity alarm in to it as well would make it one of the most useful things out there for any type of carrier not just in Utah. but other states as well, I plan to move there in June with my family and not sure on all the rules of where not to go as of yet. I do have my CCW for Florida and from my understanding I am allowed to go in those areas but would prefer not to because of just learning the laws plus it could be very helpful in other states that have the weapon free zones, that could also be very helpful to the carriers in those states. again very great idea
    God Bless America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hopkins View Post
    Hello all,
    I just joined and just made my first OC outing today to Burger King! Working on my CC permit, but in the mean time, exploring the unfamiliar territory that is OC. So, here's an idea. I'd love to develop an app for various smart phone platforms that would map the 1,000 ft. exclusion zones around school property lines so those of us without permits could more easily assure compliance. If there's interest, I will pursue this, so please let me know if you might find this useful. Not planning on charging anything at the moment.
    As an example of how it might work...you're out and about and going to leave your car. Not sure if there's a school nearby that might pose a problem so you start up the app. It accesses positioning info and shows your position on a map as usual, only there would be clearly defined school locations/exclusion zones displayed. Then, you'd have a better idea how to proceed.

    Thanks all, and have a great day!
    Mike
    Hi you might want to go over to the California board and find the South Bay group already doing it for CA. Maybe there could be a national app.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hopkins View Post
    Hello all,
    I just joined and just made my first OC outing today to Burger King! Working on my CC permit, but in the mean time, exploring the unfamiliar territory that is OC. So, here's an idea. I'd love to develop an app for various smart phone platforms that would map the 1,000 ft. exclusion zones around school property lines so those of us without permits could more easily assure compliance.
    Mike,

    Welcome. Congrats on what I assume was a non-event OCing to Burger King. And good move on pursuing the CC permit. Not only does the permit avoid problems with school zones, but I think just taking the class and getting familiar with off-limit locations and use of deadly force laws is more than worth what most instructors here in Utah charge.

    I think your app is a great idea. In fact, it could be useful even to those with permits if it included federal buildings, post offices, etc. Those don't have 1000 foot off limit zone around them. And presumably there are signs on the doors and you can just walk back to your car to store your gun, but there are safety concerns with someone seeing you do that or when you take mass transit. You could also include private property that is off limits or that actually enforce. Those who are CCing might choose to ignore a mere private policy at a business, for example, but OCers might prefer to avoid the location entirely. And both might be well advised about the metal detectors at Energy Solution Arenas or the fact that some churches are legally off limits even though there is no signage on the door.

    The real challenge, I think, is going to be locating all the off limit locations. Utah law currently includes K-12 schools, plus preschools and day care centers, plus all post secondary schools (colleges/universities, tech schools vocational schools, etc). There is no central repository for all of these. So I think the real key and challenge to making this application workable is to have some means for user input of off limit locations and then some way to easily upload and share those locations. A few dozen users could pretty quickly find, notate, and upload the off limit locations in their particular cities. It would be an overwhelming job for any single person to do it alone.

    That all said, be aware that both Federal and Utah law only enforce the gun free school zone if the person knew or reasonably should have known about the school zone. So, having such an app and then not looking at it, or ignoring it could be quite damming to the guy caught in a school zone. You might consider the implications of that.

    Again, welcome.

    Charles

  5. #5
    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    Good thought

    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    That all said, be aware that both Federal and Utah law only enforce the gun free school zone if the person knew or reasonably should have known about the school zone. So, having such an app and then not looking at it, or ignoring it could be quite damming to the guy caught in a school zone.

    I had considered this after the OP, so on top of the staggering work load locating everything, this is another reason I've been sitting on moving forward with the app. Would hate to provide a useful tool, only to have it be useful in prosecution of someone who would otherwise have had an out.

    Mike

    Edit- Yes, the OC to BK was no big deal. I don't think anyone even noticed.
    Last edited by Michael Hopkins; 01-22-2011 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Post Script

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    I do have my CCW for Florida and from my understanding I am allowed to go in those areas but would prefer not to because of just learning the laws plus it could be very helpful in other states that have the weapon free zones, that could also be very helpful to the carriers in those states. again very great idea
    Rick H, just a small clarification.. the Federal GFSZ law only exempts you from those school zones that are in the state in which you have a permit for. So if a Texas resident gets only a Utah permit, they still have to worry about GFSZ in Texas but not Utah.

    Although it has been argued that recognition an reciprocity are how the other states give permission to enter those zones with a firearm... the text of the law does not say that.

    "Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearmó...

    ...(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, ...."
    Last edited by cdrhoad; 01-23-2011 at 11:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by cdrhoad View Post
    Rick H, just a small clarification.. the Federal GFSZ law only exempts you from those school zones that are in the state in which you have a permit for. So if a Texas resident gets only a Utah permit, they still have to worry about GFSZ in Texas but not Utah.

    Although it has been argued that recognition an reciprocity are how the other states give permission to enter those zones with a firearm... the text of the law does not say that.

    "Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearmó...

    ...(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, ...."
    I will be getting my Utah permission slip when I get there so I'll have as many "RIGHTs" as allowed even though I will probably never go on to school property plus makes it easer to buy a gun in Utah with a Utah permission slip, because from my understanding I'll still have to have a waiting period without it. which is bull chit!!!!!!!!!!
    God Bless America.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    I will be getting my Utah permission slip when I get there so I'll have as many "RIGHTs" as allowed even though I will probably never go on to school property plus makes it easer to buy a gun in Utah with a Utah permission slip, because from my understanding I'll still have to have a waiting period without it. which is bull chit!!!!!!!!!!
    Utah has NO WAITING period to purchase a firearm--- except for the line at the gun store! LOL
    There is a $7.50 charge for the backgound check UNLESS you have a permit, however!
    And the School zone thing don't matter if you set foot in the school or not... It is a 1000 foot buffer zone surrounding the property--- not the building!

  9. #9
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    Probably the biggest problem with mapping the schools in Utah is that it doesn't cover you completely. Under Utah Code, anyplace can become a GFSZ simply by a school field trip showing up. This is another law that desperately needs changed. With it in place, an OCer can become a criminal by simply not knowing that a school bus pulled up outside with students on a field trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Probably the biggest problem with mapping the schools in Utah is that it doesn't cover you completely. Under Utah Code, anyplace can become a GFSZ simply by a school field trip showing up. This is another law that desperately needs changed. With it in place, an OCer can become a criminal by simply not knowing that a school bus pulled up outside with students on a field trip.
    That is so funny, I was just trying to explain that same thing to my son (for people without a permit), he wanted to argue with me about it.
    Last edited by kdt1970; 01-24-2011 at 02:50 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Probably the biggest problem with mapping the schools in Utah is that it doesn't cover you completely. Under Utah Code, anyplace can become a GFSZ simply by a school field trip showing up. This is another law that desperately needs changed. With it in place, an OCer can become a criminal by simply not knowing that a school bus pulled up outside with students on a field trip.
    And it incluces daycares (public or private) and trade schools (like massage therapy, cosmetic, hair, beauty, and truck driving schools)!

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    hopefully the Utah school zone thing will become more in line with the federal school zones after this legislative session. I'm sure we are about to see a lot of positive changes in Utah's gun laws this session!

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    CC Permit

    Well, it's done.
    Not exactly on topic, but I guess it is kinda since this would eliminate my need to worry about the GFSZ.
    My application for CC permit is in process with BCI. Let the longest 60 days of my life begin!

    Mike

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    [...] Sounds like a Good Idea, however; Utahans' with Permits need NOT Worry about such Draconian Prohibitions under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii).

  15. #15
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Test Case?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdrhoad View Post
    Rick H, just a small clarification.. the Federal GFSZ law only exempts you from those school zones that are in the state in which you have a permit for. So if a Texas resident gets only a Utah permit, they still have to worry about GFSZ in Texas but not Utah.

    Although it has been argued that recognition an reciprocity are how the other states give permission to enter those zones with a firearm... the text of the law does not say that."
    During a November 2010 Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor Course (that my esteemed colleague above also attended), a hypothetical question was put to the instructors. The question originated from a non-Utah resident. He asked the question: "If a person from State A travels to State B - and State A and State B have written agreements that recognize each State's Concealed Firearm Permits, Can a resident of State A with a permit issued by State A, carry legally in a GFSZ in State B?"

    The instructor replied that while that argument seemed logical, "it has not yet been tested in the courts".

    My comment = I do not want to be that test case.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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