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Thread: Florida Editorial: Open carry takes gun rights too far

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Florida Editorial: Open carry takes gun rights too far

    http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs....=2011110117048

    After the Tucson shootings, one can imagine how potentially provocative it would be for a concealed weapon permit holder to be striding down the street openly carrying a firearm...

    But open carry is not necessary to self-defense; the concealed weapon is adequate. While it is true that open carry has not triggered violence where it is legal, there is no proof that it deters crime, only supposition.

    How can you point to evidence of a crime that was pre-empted by personal fortification?

    I could say that if no one is allowed to drive on Thursdays, that I could lower traffic fatalities by 14.29%...but that too is just supposition and it doesnt necessarily mean that its either true or accurate.

    One could also suppose that if a openly carried firearm frightens onlookers, that it would also have this same effect on criminals who are among them.
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    I have never seen an anti-gun argument based on true fact, it always seems to be based on the arguers ignorance.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Not surprising considering how many in today's society have bought in to the "police state government will take care of me" mentality coupled with the "licensed means skilled" lie.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Another comment on the article:

    Our concern, especially after Tucson, is that the appearance of a gun-toting person in public could trigger alarm, confrontations, calls to police and possible violence. The danger would be less from [sic] the legal gun owner than to him (the Ocer), and to bystanders.
    The people reading this could assume that OC is not legal. This kind of reporting should be against the law. It makes out OCers are criminals since it implies they do not carry legally.
    Last edited by CenTex; 01-18-2011 at 03:46 PM.
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    The question many people never ask themselves is

    Does the display of Force beget Force?

    or

    Does the display of Force prevent Force?

    if it is the first supposition then why do LEO carry weapons? why did we build a nuclear arsenal, why do we man the 38th parrallel, when there is trouble why is a U.S. Carrier sent to the region, Why did Teddy "walk softly, but carry a big stick", why did we have troops in West Germany during the cold war, why do we have big adults monitoring children at recess in school yards, why do people carry walking sticks or mace when out exercising, why do we encourage woman not to walk alone at night without an escort, why do store owners keep weapons under the counter, why do we have bouncers and security at large gatherings of people, why does POTUS have many suited armed guards around him constantly??????

    Many people have been taught that the second supposition is false, that the weapon itself is the embodyment of crime and evil, and to carry it and display it means you wish to do harm and commit crime. They have forgotten that displaying the ability to defend with equal force is an effective detteret to crime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    The question many people never ask themselves is

    Does the display of Force beget Force?

    or

    Does the display of Force prevent Force?

    if it is the first supposition then why do LEO carry weapons? why did we build a nuclear arsenal, why do we man the 38th parrallel, when there is trouble why is a U.S. Carrier sent to the region, Why did Teddy "walk softly, but carry a big stick", why did we have troops in West Germany during the cold war, why do we have big adults monitoring children at recess in school yards, why do people carry walking sticks or mace when out exercising, why do we encourage woman not to walk alone at night without an escort, why do store owners keep weapons under the counter, why do we have bouncers and security at large gatherings of people, why does POTUS have many suited armed guards around him constantly??????

    Many people have been taught that the second supposition is false, that the weapon itself is the embodyment of crime and evil, and to carry it and display it means you wish to do harm and commit crime. They have forgotten that displaying the ability to defend with equal force is an effective detteret to crime.
    a big +1

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Another comment on the article:



    The people reading this could assume that OC is not legal. This kind of reporting should be against the law. It makes out OCers are criminals since it implies they do not carry legally.
    Unless the law has changed while I've been attending to other affairs, Open Carry remains illegal in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    The question many people never ask themselves is

    Does the display of Force beget Force?

    or

    Does the display of Force prevent Force?

    if it is the first supposition then why do LEO carry weapons? why did we build a nuclear arsenal, why do we man the 38th parrallel, when there is trouble why is a U.S. Carrier sent to the region, Why did Teddy "walk softly, but carry a big stick", why did we have troops in West Germany during the cold war, why do we have big adults monitoring children at recess in school yards, why do people carry walking sticks or mace when out exercising, why do we encourage woman not to walk alone at night without an escort, why do store owners keep weapons under the counter, why do we have bouncers and security at large gatherings of people, why does POTUS have many suited armed guards around him constantly??????

    Many people have been taught that the second supposition is false, that the weapon itself is the embodyment of crime and evil, and to carry it and display it means you wish to do harm and commit crime. They have forgotten that displaying the ability to defend with equal force is an effective detteret to crime.
    And let us not forget the Cuban Missile Crisis. Force was shown on both sides and eventually led to a PEACEFUL negotiation for the disarment of Cuba, it did not lead to any actual force. This shows that possession of arms does not necessarily mean one will use them.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    I was stationed at Key West (Fleet ASW Sonar School) during the Cuban missle crisis.
    Kenedy told the Russians...."Any nuclear stirke in the Western Hemisphere would be considered a strike on the US and would bring a full retaliatory strike on the USSR." They blockaded Cuba and Russia removed the missiles. Very tense times.

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    Yes very tense but also very detering seeing as how neither side really wanted to make the first strike. I still do not think anyone fully realize how close we were to nuclear war at that time. Fortunately I only read about it in books.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    The question many people never ask themselves is

    Does the display of Force beget Force?

    or

    Does the display of Force prevent Force?

    if it is the first supposition then why do LEO carry weapons? why did we build a nuclear arsenal, why do we man the 38th parrallel, when there is trouble why is a U.S. Carrier sent to the region, Why did Teddy "walk softly, but carry a big stick", why did we have troops in West Germany during the cold war, why do we have big adults monitoring children at recess in school yards, why do people carry walking sticks or mace when out exercising, why do we encourage woman not to walk alone at night without an escort, why do store owners keep weapons under the counter, why do we have bouncers and security at large gatherings of people, why does POTUS have many suited armed guards around him constantly??????

    Many people have been taught that the second supposition is false, that the weapon itself is the embodyment of crime and evil, and to carry it and display it means you wish to do harm and commit crime. They have forgotten that displaying the ability to defend with equal force is an effective detteret to crime.
    Nicely said Firemark. If I can add one...why are commercial airliners escorted by military fighter jets when questions about security arise?
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Unless the law has changed while I've been attending to other affairs, Open Carry remains illegal in Florida.
    Too bad. So sad. You mad? Move Dad!

    Many states have OC. This article implies all OCers are illegally carrying. If my memory is not totaling failing me, it is also legal in Arizona.
    Last edited by CenTex; 01-18-2011 at 11:54 PM.
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    As long as we are waaay off topic....
    It seems, at that time the US had missles in Turkey, and part of the deal was those would be removed also. Neither side liked looking down a gun barrel.

  14. #14
    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    btt
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Too bad. So sad. You mad? Move Dad!

    Many states have OC. This article implies all OCers are illegally carrying. If my memory is not totaling failing me, it is also legal in Arizona.
    OC is legal during certain activities in FL such as while fishing and hunting. Don't have the statutes in front of me right now, but perhaps someone else does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Unless the law has changed while I've been attending to other affairs, Open Carry remains illegal in Florida.
    Florida law allows open carry when fishing, hunting and camping. Carry your mini fishing rod as you carry your gun openly.

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I was stationed at Key West (Fleet ASW Sonar School) during the Cuban missle crisis.
    Kenedy told the Russians...."Any nuclear stirke in the Western Hemisphere would be considered a strike on the US and would bring a full retaliatory strike on the USSR." They blockaded Cuba and Russia removed the missiles. Very tense times.
    I saw a documentary about that..X-Men First Class. That was back when Magneto was still our ally.
    But seriously my (late) great uncle was called in by Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis. He had been tasked before the standoff with gathering all possible intel about Castro and was the authority on him.
    He retired E-9 Sergeant Major in the Army.
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    When I click on the link it tells me "story not found"

  19. #19
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    The article appears to have been taken down.
    Link is dead and doing a search for it on the site shows nothing and google only shows open carry websites.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    This thread was started on 01-18-2011.
    The news-press has probably moved on since then.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    While it is true that open carry has not triggered violence where it is legal...
    So the author concedes the point, and has no argument. Next!

    But seriously, whence derives the impetus to ban guns when they can be showed to not lead to violence? That's literally the only argument against guns. Everything else derives from that. And he conceded us the point.

    /Thread
    Last edited by marshaul; 11-01-2011 at 12:59 PM.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Unless the law has changed while I've been attending to other affairs, Open Carry remains illegal in Florida.
    I'm so embarrassed of this place... Floriduh is a terrible State.
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