If the President responds to this at all, he would just be legitimizing the birther delusion. He's not going to do that. He doesn't care how riled up the birthers get because they are not going to vote for him anyway. Arizona will certify him as eligable to run in 2012 and the birthers will still waste their energy on it while the rest of the population worries about real issues.
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May have to become a birther after all.
- Thread starter rodbender
- Start date
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
oldbanger
Regular Member
U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born (in America) parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."
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rodbender
Regular Member
If you posted this trying to say that these are reliable sources, you've really been duped.
ldsgeek
Regular Member
Another possibility
I forget where I read it but they may be hiding the original for another, completely unrelated reason. At the time of his birth, without the father present (he wasn't) and both a white mother and a white grandmother present, any offspring would have been listed as White, not Colored or Negro (proper terms at the time). This being the case, releasing his real birth certificate would show him to NOT be the first black president, but just another white guy, regardless of his skin color.
Also, during his early years he had to become a citizen of one country (Indonesia) in which he and his mother resided in order to receive school funding. How would this affect his eligibility for the presidency?
I forget where I read it but they may be hiding the original for another, completely unrelated reason. At the time of his birth, without the father present (he wasn't) and both a white mother and a white grandmother present, any offspring would have been listed as White, not Colored or Negro (proper terms at the time). This being the case, releasing his real birth certificate would show him to NOT be the first black president, but just another white guy, regardless of his skin color.
Also, during his early years he had to become a citizen of one country (Indonesia) in which he and his mother resided in order to receive school funding. How would this affect his eligibility for the presidency?
NRAMARINE
Regular Member
There was no provisions for dual citizenship with Indonesia at the time. They became citizens there so he could attend school, therefore losing his American citizenship (legally). Therefore upon return to the US he would be considered a foreign national, and have to get naturalized citizen status. Not natural born status. Therefore he is legally ineligible to be president.
Tawnos
Regular Member
This thread is a bucketful of wharrgarbl
SFCRetired
Regular Member
Was he born in the U.S.? Did he give up American citizenship so that he could go to school in Indonesia? Better yet, was he raised by his Muslim father from birth to the age of twelve and is therefore thoroughly indoctrinated in Islam?
To quote that great American, Rhett Butler, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
Why? Because, from where I sit, he is the worst president this country has had and I remember when Truman was president. I very firmly believe that his administration has virtually guaranteed that a "person of color" will not be elected to the Presidency in what remains of my lifetime.
That, in and of itself, is a crying shame. There are black men and women in this country who would do a very credible job in that office. I do not believe they will get the chance.
It would be most amusing to be able to return to this life in a hundred years to read what the historians have to say about this administration.
To quote that great American, Rhett Butler, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
Why? Because, from where I sit, he is the worst president this country has had and I remember when Truman was president. I very firmly believe that his administration has virtually guaranteed that a "person of color" will not be elected to the Presidency in what remains of my lifetime.
That, in and of itself, is a crying shame. There are black men and women in this country who would do a very credible job in that office. I do not believe they will get the chance.
It would be most amusing to be able to return to this life in a hundred years to read what the historians have to say about this administration.
I'll bet "The One" could arrange your return if you asked
Although not necessary, I'm sure he's already written his version and titled “The Doctrine of Hussein". Available soon in a fine cartel drug store near you!
Thos.Jefferson
Regular Member
Look Eye, I can google too!
Before the Constitution the closest reference we have to Natural Born Citizen is from the legal treatise “the Law of Nations,” written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758. In book one chapter 19,
§ 212. Of the citizens and natives.
“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”
If not Vattel, then where did they arrive at this term. Many of those who ridicule us like to quote Blackstone as authoritative that the United States adopted English Common Law. They like to state that Blackstone’s natural born subject is equivalent of a natural born citizen. There is no doubt that the Founding Father’s were influenced from Blackstone’s Commentary. However, the Framers of the Constitution recognized that it was Blackstone, who argued that the Parliament and King could change the constitution at will. Blackstone was increasingly recognized by the Americans as a proponent of arbitrary power. In fact, the framers rejected the notion that the United States was under English Common Law, “The common law of England is not the common law of these States.” George Mason one of Virginia’s delegates to the Constitutional Convention.
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KansasMustang
Regular Member
NO, he is not automatically an American Citizen because his mother was. In the US Code of the time it required that a person remained on US soil for 5 years AFTER their 15th birthday. She was 19, at his birth, and had already traveled outside the US. I'm not totally convince one way or the other but if he has nothing to hide why does he go to the expense of hiding it? At any rate do your homework before making such statements, I did.
Ok. Lets put this in reality. I researched a bit a while back (unfortunately lost the hard drive the info and links were on, but here is a summary.)
1. There is a live witness to the birth. A nurse who remembers as the mother of O's name (Stanley?) was the same as her fathers, so she teased him about it.
2. Newspaper birth announcements. One paper received notifications from parents or public. One received notifications from the State of Hawaii's Health Dept. Both have O's birth announcement.
3. O's Indonesian school lists his birth place as Hawaii
4. Kenya was not in existence at the time of O's birth. Records would have been kept by Great Britain.
5. No colonial birth certificate found.
6. O's Grandmother in Kenya, when asked about his birthplace, stated it was in Hawaii. (not what was initially reported.)
7. As with many people, O does not have his copy of his original birth certificate. He requested and received a copy from Hawaii. The SAME copy any other citizen would receive when they request, as a late 1990's law of Hawaii dictates, the short certificate is all the state will print. O can request the larger form, but by the law, Hawaii will only give the short form.
8. Short form certificate is 100% acceptable to all Federal Agencies, including getting your Pass Port.
9. If this is an issue, then why has no one gone to the State of Illinois to see what was given by O to get his driver's license? No one has to my research. Typically, one of the requirements is a birth certificate to prove age...
10. Several hundred workers in the Hawaii Dept of Health, which have actual access, would have to be in on the conspiracy. (Note the one the WND put out there admits he has never seen O's file...)
"There was no provisions for dual citizenship with Indonesia at the time. They became citizens there so he could attend school, therefore losing his American citizenship (legally). Therefore upon return to the US he would be considered a foreign national, and have to get naturalized citizen status. Not natural born status. Therefore he is legally ineligible to be president."
Not necessarily. Your citizenship falls from the US, not what other nations do or not do. The only way you can lose citizenship is by a treasonous act, or by notifying the US government of your intent. No such event occurred with O. O was allowed to be in the school in Indonesia due to his father's citizenship.
1. There is a live witness to the birth. A nurse who remembers as the mother of O's name (Stanley?) was the same as her fathers, so she teased him about it.
2. Newspaper birth announcements. One paper received notifications from parents or public. One received notifications from the State of Hawaii's Health Dept. Both have O's birth announcement.
3. O's Indonesian school lists his birth place as Hawaii
4. Kenya was not in existence at the time of O's birth. Records would have been kept by Great Britain.
5. No colonial birth certificate found.
6. O's Grandmother in Kenya, when asked about his birthplace, stated it was in Hawaii. (not what was initially reported.)
7. As with many people, O does not have his copy of his original birth certificate. He requested and received a copy from Hawaii. The SAME copy any other citizen would receive when they request, as a late 1990's law of Hawaii dictates, the short certificate is all the state will print. O can request the larger form, but by the law, Hawaii will only give the short form.
8. Short form certificate is 100% acceptable to all Federal Agencies, including getting your Pass Port.
9. If this is an issue, then why has no one gone to the State of Illinois to see what was given by O to get his driver's license? No one has to my research. Typically, one of the requirements is a birth certificate to prove age...
10. Several hundred workers in the Hawaii Dept of Health, which have actual access, would have to be in on the conspiracy. (Note the one the WND put out there admits he has never seen O's file...)
"There was no provisions for dual citizenship with Indonesia at the time. They became citizens there so he could attend school, therefore losing his American citizenship (legally). Therefore upon return to the US he would be considered a foreign national, and have to get naturalized citizen status. Not natural born status. Therefore he is legally ineligible to be president."
Not necessarily. Your citizenship falls from the US, not what other nations do or not do. The only way you can lose citizenship is by a treasonous act, or by notifying the US government of your intent. No such event occurred with O. O was allowed to be in the school in Indonesia due to his father's citizenship.
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Freedom First
Regular Member
Thanks for the best summation of this issue...
Awesome pic!
I had a dog like that too. He would pursue the sprinkler until he was completely exausted AND NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING except for his being wet and tired...
The Obamites will not show this document. They are unconcerned by the Constitutional issues of citizenship. They have the power and until that changes nothing will happen and then it will be too late. Right and wrong do not enter into their thinking, it's only about control over the greatest nation on Earth. End of discussion.
Have a nice day on their farm and keep chasing that darned sprinkler... You're just going to wind up wet and tired and the farmer likes his dogs asleep. Dogs are much quieter and far less trouble when they are asleep. May I suggest you find something productive to do to with your limited days on this Earth? Woof.
Awesome pic!
I had a dog like that too. He would pursue the sprinkler until he was completely exausted AND NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING except for his being wet and tired...
The Obamites will not show this document. They are unconcerned by the Constitutional issues of citizenship. They have the power and until that changes nothing will happen and then it will be too late. Right and wrong do not enter into their thinking, it's only about control over the greatest nation on Earth. End of discussion.
Have a nice day on their farm and keep chasing that darned sprinkler... You're just going to wind up wet and tired and the farmer likes his dogs asleep. Dogs are much quieter and far less trouble when they are asleep. May I suggest you find something productive to do to with your limited days on this Earth? Woof.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
This is true. Some citizenships do not allow the bearer to have other citizenships, but in those cases the person must first repudiate their citizenship in the first country.
So-called "dual citizenship" arises when a person may take on citizenship in a country without being forced to repudiate prior citizenship. In this event, both citizenships are considered valid by their respective countries.
If a person is running for the office of president of the United States, and he is required by the Constitution to be the age of 35 or above, and a citizen of the United States, it should be expected that he MUST show that he was acknowledged a citizen at birth when so many citizens question his right to hold office. A birth certificate fulfills that need. I will accept nothing less before I will accept this man to be legally holding this office.
Until then, I can see him as none other than a man who has "weaseled" himself into this position.
WHAT HAS HE TO HIDE? Showing his genuine birth certificate would put this mess to an end.
Until then, I can see him as none other than a man who has "weaseled" himself into this position.
WHAT HAS HE TO HIDE? Showing his genuine birth certificate would put this mess to an end.
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
If he lost it, he can't show it.
What you propose is tantamount to a situation where no person who has lost their original birth certificate is eligible to be President.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yep I don't have mine, never even was given a "real" birth certificate had this pink little card. Of course in 1970 Seattle being a bastard child was something unusual.
Dreamer
Regular Member
Yeah, what we needed was a presidential candidate that WAS born in the USA--someone like John McCain....
Oops... McCain was born in a PRIVATE HOSPITAL in the Panama Canal Zone, when his parents were stationed there with the Navy. Sure, this makes McCain a "Citizen", but he was not--by any law, interpretaion, or code--"natural born", which puts an interesting spin on the ENTIRE election of 2008.
Don't you people see--it doesn't matter WHICH one we elected--neither of the candidates for the main parties were natural-born citizens. Both of them are fully-owned by Goldman Sachs, and BOTH of them probably have some SERIOUSLY creepy, sick, and bizarre skeletons in their closets.
Not only is the "left-right paradigm" a complete load of bull, but the candidates that are forwarded on BOTH sides are BOTH so completely compromised that we can rest assured that no matter WHO gets "elected", they will be completely in the pockets of ther puppet masters....
Oops... McCain was born in a PRIVATE HOSPITAL in the Panama Canal Zone, when his parents were stationed there with the Navy. Sure, this makes McCain a "Citizen", but he was not--by any law, interpretaion, or code--"natural born", which puts an interesting spin on the ENTIRE election of 2008.
Don't you people see--it doesn't matter WHICH one we elected--neither of the candidates for the main parties were natural-born citizens. Both of them are fully-owned by Goldman Sachs, and BOTH of them probably have some SERIOUSLY creepy, sick, and bizarre skeletons in their closets.
Not only is the "left-right paradigm" a complete load of bull, but the candidates that are forwarded on BOTH sides are BOTH so completely compromised that we can rest assured that no matter WHO gets "elected", they will be completely in the pockets of ther puppet masters....
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