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May have to become a birther after all.

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
Yeah, what we needed was a presidential candidate that WAS born in the USA--someone like John McCain....

Oops... McCain was born in a PRIVATE HOSPITAL in the Panama Canal Zone, when his parents were stationed there with the Navy. Sure, this makes McCain a "Citizen", but he was not--by any law, interpretaion, or code--"natural born", which puts an interesting spin on the ENTIRE election of 2008.

What you are seriously suggesting here, is that troops stationed in foreign countries may find their children to be ineligible to be President because they were born abroad?

When considering birth, it is normal practice for an ambulance to take you to the nearest hospital, and for that purpose, TriCare (Military medical "insurance") would of course cover a birth in a non-military, foreign hospital.

Removing a childs "natural born" status, simply because his parents served, is absurd.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Yep I don't have mine, never even was given a "real" birth certificate had this pink little card. Of course in 1970 Seattle being a bastard child was something unusual.

He can't lose the document in question. In Hawaii, it is the "long form" filled out at the time of birth by folks actually present at the birth, and then filed with the State. The State keeps this document. It makes a record of the vital statistics and can use this record to produce the "short form" that is often touted as the "birth certificate." However, the "long form" is not the only way for the information to be recorded, resulting in a "short form" being produced.

That a copy of the long form is not being produced reasonably raises the question of its existence. If it does not exist, that raises the question of whether the man who would be president was constitutionally eligible.

I don't know. I am not saying that he was not born in the US. I don't know. That is a sad state of affairs. There should NEVER be a question as to whether our president is constitutionally eligible. We are due a copy of the long form, if it exists. If it doesn't we deserve an explanation that would satisfy the overwhelming majority of Americans that he is indeed eligible to be president.

Neither of those things has happened. He is hiding something. It is not unreasonable to wonder if what he is hiding is his ineligibility. Likely, he is hiding something else. I don't know which, and I don't care.

Unless he is willing to come clean, he does not deserve to be president.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
What you are seriously suggesting here, is that troops stationed in foreign countries may find their children to be ineligible to be President because they were born abroad?

My sweety, who was born in Germany when her father ( a natural-born US citizen) was stationed there with the Army (but her mother was still a German National) is inelligible for this VERY reason. That is the law. Look it up.


When considering birth, it is normal practice for an ambulance to take you to the nearest hospital, and for that purpose, TriCare (Military medical "insurance") would of course cover a birth in a non-military, foreign hospital.

TriCAre wasn't established until 1993. That is a LONG time after John McCain was born in Panama...

Prior to that, CHAMPUS was the military's health care system, and it was put into effect in 1966. Again, that is WAY after McCain was born...

Prior to that, care for the dependents of military personnel was provided in military facilities on a "space available" basis, but most officers (like McCain's father) had private insurance, and used private hospitals and doctors for their family's health care.

John McCain was born in a private hospital abroad--which DOES NOT qualify as "American Soil" like a military base abroad does. His health care for the birth was paid for under a private policy. He was not born in any way, upon the auspices of US Sovereign Land.

We WAS born a US citizen, because his parents were both "Natural Born". But he was NOT born on US soil, or on foreign soil designated as "Sovereign US Soil" as a military base or State Department compound. He was born in a private Panamanian hospital, off-base.


Removing a childs "natural born" status, simply because his parents served, is absurd.

Actually, it is no more absurd than the child of civilian parents not being able to claim "natural born" status if it was born abroad while the parents were traveling for business or pleasure...

The job of the parents that causes them to be abroad has NOTHING to do with the status of the child born abroad. It has to do with the PLACE they were born--whether or not it is on "sovereign US ground" like an embassy or military base.

And John McCain was born in a private hospital, several miles off base.

Do the research...
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
What you are seriously suggesting here, is that troops stationed in foreign countries may find their children to be ineligible to be President because they were born abroad?

When considering birth, it is normal practice for an ambulance to take you to the nearest hospital, and for that purpose, TriCare (Military medical "insurance") would of course cover a birth in a non-military, foreign hospital.

Removing a childs "natural born" status, simply because his parents served, is absurd.

Yeah. That.

It is disgusting that someone would think that John McCain is not a natural bron citizen because he was born into an American military family serving overseas. Disgusting.
 

Plugpenny

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Atoka, TN
Who Cares About Birth?

I dont care about his birthplace! I think it is irrelevant at this point. Obama ,eligible or not, to be president by birth is beside the point. He has PROVEN to this "bitter clinger" that he is not neither qualified or eligible by his disrespect for The Constitution and his anti-freedom/liberty stances!

Your Honors, I rest my case.

The Bad Penny has spoken.
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I dont care about his birthplace! I think it is irrelevant at this point. Obama ,eligible or not, to be president by birth is beside the point. He has PROVEN to this "bitter clinger" that he is not neither qualified or eligible by his disrespect for The Constitution and his anti-freedom/liberty stances!

Your Honors, I rest my case.

The Bad Penny has spoken.

Your first sentence seems to indicate that certain parts of the Constitution do not matter to you. If that is the case, I find such thought repugnant.

Your last sentence is kinda arrogant for a first post.

For now, I'll assume that you do not see the Constitution as pick-and-choose and that you are not arrogant. Welcome.
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
My sweety, who was born in Germany when her father ( a natural-born US citizen) was stationed there with the Army (but her mother was still a German National) is inelligible for this VERY reason. That is the law. Look it up.

I am well aware of the babies left over there by bastardizing fathers. This is unfortunately commonplace in Germany, as soldiers go out and about on the town, and then "lose" phone numbers.

I spent two years over there. I have seen the results.

John McCains parents were both American. There is no question there.


When you send soldiers abroad, with their families, then the offspring they produce are considered to be naturalized so long as both parents are US Citizens.

The issue with your "sweety", no doubt, is that she had a German parent to go along with her American one.
 

Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
I am well aware of the babies left over there by bastardizing fathers. This is unfortunately commonplace in Germany, as soldiers go out and about on the town, and then "lose" phone numbers.

I resent the fact that you are insinuating that my beloved was born out of wedlock, or that my father-in-law--a US Army career man who served all over the world for decades, including tours in Viet Nam, and in Ethiopia prior to the Revolution--was some sort of carousing Casanova.

You have been reported to the moderator for this egregious personal attack...


The issue with your "sweety", no doubt, is that she had a German parent to go along with her American one.

That, and the fact that she was born in a private hospital off base, and delivered by private doctors, paid by private funds...

Just like John McCain...


When you send soldiers abroad, with their families, then the offspring they produce are considered to be naturalized so long as both parents are US Citizens.

There is a HUGE difference between "naturalized" and "natural born", in terms of Constitutional eligibility for being President.

My sweety, AND John McCain, are both NATURALIZED citizens. So is Arnold Schwarzenegger...

The Constitution clearly states that a person must be NATURAL BORN to serve as President....
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
The issue with your "sweety", no doubt, is that she had a German parent to go along with her American one.

That is surely the issue. If both her parents are citizens, she is natural-born. If she is not natural born, then one of her parents is not a citizen.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP What you propose is tantamount to a situation where no person who has lost their original birth certificate is eligible to be President.

Now that sounds like a solution to states rights that I could go along with!

State after state just makes birth certificates illegal--problem solved in a few years!

:)
 
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papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
have y'all ever thought about this could make a good movie. a muslim socialist man knocks up an American girl and she has the baby in the US. and then the man takes the baby to be raised i a muslim country until he is 10 then goes to another foreign country say Kenya till about twenty. then comes back to America as a foreign exchange student and then figures out he could be president........Nah, thats too unbelievable
 

Citizen

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Messages
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Fairfax Co., VA
have y'all ever thought about this could make a good movie. a muslim socialist man knocks up an American girl and she has the baby in the US. and then the man takes the baby to be raised i a muslim country until he is 10 then goes to another foreign country say Kenya till about twenty. then comes back to America as a foreign exchange student and then figures out he could be president........Nah, thats too unbelievable

I'll go along with, "...then figures out he could pretend to be President." Even if he is a natural-born citizen, the current occupant of the White House is not being the President. He's more using the Presidency.
 

slowfiveoh

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Messages
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Richmond, VA
I resent the fact that you are insinuating that my beloved was born out of wedlock, or that my father-in-law--a US Army career man who served all over the world for decades, including tours in Viet Nam, and in Ethiopia prior to the Revolution--was some sort of carousing Casanova.

You had to build a hell of a bridge to come to the the extremely asinine conclusion that I was inferring your father to be a "carousing Casanova".

I was merely sharing that it "is" a bit of a normalcy over there, and for that reason, I have witnessed first-hand the product of separate citizenship and childbearing.

I am literally laughing so hard that you immediately went for the low road, assuming I was assaulting you, or your families character.

You have been reported to the moderator for this egregious personal attack...

Point out where it got personal.

I never even remotely inferred your father was, as you stated, a "carousing Casanova". Cool your temper, and stop and think rationally for a hot second.

Your father could have loved, and been dedicated to the same German woman for the entire duration of the tour. Nobody said, nor implied, that HE wasn't. I merely used a modern model of what occurs over there right now to describe the similarities in process, not in romantic activity.

Jesus dude. Calm yourself.


That, and the fact that she was born in a private hospital off base, and delivered by private doctors, paid by private funds...

Was her mother a naturalized, American citizen at the time of birth, or was she a German citizen?

Just like John McCain...

Incorrect.

Two American born soldiers, giving birth to a child during a tour of duty, irregardless of location, makes the baby a natural born American citizen. That IS the way it works. My wife is the product of two service members who both served on Kadena in the early 80's. She is a natural born, American citizen. She was born on Kadena, but regardless of location, she would still be a natural born American citizen.


There is a HUGE difference between "naturalized" and "natural born", in terms of Constitutional eligibility for being President.

Yes, and it comes down to parents nationality at the time of birth.

Now, as I had tried to explain to you before you dove off the deep end, building bridges that aren't there.


When the two parents are not of the same citizenship, in this particular case a German, and a US soldier, then there is no clear, definable answer. The best term is "dual national", meaning able to claim both nations as parent nations, but cetainly not qualifying for the status of "natural born".

When the parents are BOTH American, they can fill out the appropriate forms confirming their children to be "Natural born American Citizens".

I have so many friends who had children while in, and hell, like I said, the wife is a "Natural Born American Citizen" by way of her parents being American Citizens, on deployment overseas.


My sweety, AND John McCain, are both NATURALIZED citizens. So is Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Your "sweety" maybe. You have to answer whether one of her parents were not a US Citizen.

The Constitution clearly states that a person must be NATURAL BORN to serve as President....

...and clearly you do not understand the process to get there.

Have you ever served?

Do you have any idea, whatsoever, what your inference is?

You are inferring that thousands upon thousands of children born on Military institutions, are never eligible to be POTUS.

Sorry bud. You get a big "X" for that claim.
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
Come on, clearly "natural born citizen" means that only those citizens born via natural birth are allowed, and nobody else. :p
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Come on, clearly "natural born citizen" means that only those citizens born via natural birth are allowed, and nobody else. :p

Hohoho! Does this mean C-sections are not eligible? Can the case law be twisted to exclude in-vitro and the issue of fertility treatments? How about surrogates?

If true, I can now escape my mother's disappointment that I did not grow up to be president. By her own admission, I was hatched, not born. :)

:D
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
He can't lose the document in question. In Hawaii, it is the "long form" filled out at the time of birth by folks actually present at the birth, and then filed with the State. The State keeps this document. It makes a record of the vital statistics and can use this record to produce the "short form" that is often touted as the "birth certificate." However, the "long form" is not the only way for the information to be recorded, resulting in a "short form" being produced.

That a copy of the long form is not being produced reasonably raises the question of its existence. If it does not exist, that raises the question of whether the man who would be president was constitutionally eligible.

I don't know. I am not saying that he was not born in the US. I don't know. That is a sad state of affairs. There should NEVER be a question as to whether our president is constitutionally eligible. We are due a copy of the long form, if it exists. If it doesn't we deserve an explanation that would satisfy the overwhelming majority of Americans that he is indeed eligible to be president.

Neither of those things has happened. He is hiding something. It is not unreasonable to wonder if what he is hiding is his ineligibility. Likely, he is hiding something else. I don't know which, and I don't care.

Unless he is willing to come clean, he does not deserve to be president.

Gotcha, I don't have mine, I know people living in Hawaii who don't have theirs. I lived in Hawaii off and on growing up. They not always the best "record" keepers especially as a newly formed state.

I was born in Seattle and don't have mine, lost my little pink card given to my teenage mother, for the birth of her illegitimate son. Now Hawaii, being a new state at the time of Obama's birth I can very well see that state loosing, or his mother loosing it. I can also see how someone born out of country could then be registered as born in Hawaii, again I know the state, I can see it happening, a mother could claim child born at home and take it to a hospital for a certificate.

This does not mean I believe this! The point is there is no proof either way and does no one any good speculating on it now especially this far into the man's office. All it does do is give those who wholeheartedly/blindly follow this leader ammo to use against those who don't to poopoo any legitimate grievances they may have with this president.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
This does not mean I believe this! The point is there is no proof either way and does no one any good speculating on it now especially this far into the man's office. All it does do is give those who wholeheartedly/blindly follow this leader ammo to use against those who don't to poopoo any legitimate grievances they may have with this president.

Yup.

Personally, I'm inclined to suspect that Obama himself is intentionally responsible for this whole "debate", using it as a way to deflect and preempt legitimate performance-oriented criticism.

Let's stop playing that game! This horse has bolted. Now we need to focus on real issues.

The man is a lousy president. We don't need this nonsense to make that point -- it only detracts from relevant grievances.
 
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ODA 226

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
1,603
Location
Etzenricht, Germany
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
From the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania
Includes 5 photos in the text, with links to 9.

More discussion, including a reminder that his mother was an American citizen, so he automatically is, no matter where he was born.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

An interesting analysis of how tampering would show up (but hasn't):
http://xenon.arcticus.com/barack-obama-birth-certificate-image-tampering-analysis

Here's Snopes, though many 'birthers' think they're part of the Great Conspiracy:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
The reference 9 articles.

Or you could do your own Google:
["barack obama" "birth certificate" scan]

I was born in Hawaii a little more than 1 year before Obama. My mother is a native Hawaiian. I have my "CERTIFICATE of LIVE BIRTH." It is the ONLY legal document that proves when and where in Hawaii a person was born.

A "CERTIFICATION of LIVE BIRTH" is NOT a legal document. It is commonly issued to tourists as a souvenier. You CANNOT even obtain a Drivers Licence in Hawaii with a "Certification of Live Birth."

Obama has duped an ignorant America public into think he's an American citizen, but IMHO, he is not!
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I was born in Hawaii a little more than 1 year before Obama. My mother is a native Hawaiian. I have my "CERTIFICATE of LIVE BIRTH." It is the ONLY legal document that proves when and where in Hawaii a person was born.

A "CERTIFICATION of LIVE BIRTH" is NOT a legal document. It is commonly issued to tourists as a souvenier. You CANNOT even obtain a Drivers Licence in Hawaii with a "Certification of Live Birth."

Obama has duped an ignorant America public into think he's an American citizen, but IMHO, he is not!

No matter! What is done is done, and to continue to argue this point plays right into the politicians ability to distract the citizenry from the real issues.
 
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