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Thread: examiner.com - Va. Gov. Bob Mcdonnell moves to enforce universal right to open carry

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    examiner.com - Va. Gov. Bob Mcdonnell moves to enforce universal right to open carry

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-to-open-carry

    SNIP

    According to a National Rifle Association (NRA) email alert sent to its Virginia members today, "[o]n January 14, Governor McDonnell issued a directive to the [Virginia] Department of Conservation and Recreation to cease enforcement of § 4VAC5-30-200 which prohibits open carrying of firearms in State Parks and has immediate effect."

    This action follows though on a legal opinion McDonnell issued as state Attorney General regarding the state regulation banning open carry in state parks in which he declared that "[a] person’s right to carry a firearm openly is considered universal within the Commonwealth." . . .

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-to-open-carry

    SNIP

    According to a National Rifle Association (NRA) email alert sent to its Virginia members today, "[o]n January 14, Governor McDonnell issued a directive to the [Virginia] Department of Conservation and Recreation to cease enforcement of § 4VAC5-30-200 which prohibits open carrying of firearms in State Parks and has immediate effect."

    This action follows though on a legal opinion McDonnell issued as state Attorney General regarding the state regulation banning open carry in state parks in which he declared that "[a] person’s right to carry a firearm openly is considered universal within the Commonwealth." . . .

    "[a] person’s right to carry a firearm openly is considered universal within the Commonwealth" ~YES YES YES Now schools
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-19-2011 at 12:03 AM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    k-12 is statutory law. However, GMU and VCU gun bans, are VAC, like the state forests prohibition.

    C'mon gov. Mcdonnell lets do this!
    GMU/VCU how is this so and not VT?

    Because its a U?


    " (Virginia Tech) is a public land-grant university serving the Commonwealth of Virginia"
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-19-2011 at 12:22 AM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Only GMU and VCU have gun bans in the Virginia Administrative Code, and apparently can enforce said bans against visitors. VT and the rest of the public universities only have their bans as university policy and can enforce them against their students and employees through disciplinary action. VT Police may try to enforce it against the public, but legally I do not believe they have the authority to.
    The logic of it all confuses me. They can not ban guns, I hope Gov fixxes it.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    k-12 is statutory law. However, GMU and VCU gun bans, are VAC, like the state forests prohibition.

    C'mon gov. Mcdonnell lets do this!
    Universities and all state agencies, because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Universities and all state agencies, because it is the RIGHT thing to do!
    Yes. This needs to be up next. This gap in our rights has yet to be touched.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Some one will have to explain this to me - I'm just a country boy in the big city.

    We apparently have today, the right to OC or CC in state parks and in 45 days or so we should have that same right in state forests, but what about Wildlife Management areas, what about when bow hunting, what about the Library of Virginia?

    State colleges and universities are more obvious because of the level of attention that has been paid to them, but no more unique in that the invisible line is the deciding factor. Crossing that line or not should not determine whether an adult's or child's life is worth defending or should be relegated to potential victim.

    I am reminded of the old "Blue Laws" in the Commonwealth - no alcohol or socks to be purchased/sold on Sunday. What we have here are Blue Laws on guns - determined not by the day of the week but by what square foot of state controlled property you happen to stand.

    BTW - who agrees with me that VCU's VAC policy/rule has been weakened by the GMU decision? I read that has having effectively removed the no guns on campus for the general public, but still restricted from the buildings. Thoughts?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    BTW - who agrees with me that VCU's VAC policy/rule has been weakened by the GMU decision? I read that has having effectively removed the no guns on campus for the general public, but still restricted from the buildings. Thoughts?
    I tend to agree with you GS. I had to think about it after you first shared that idea with me, but it makes perfect sense.

    Unfortunately, it did the opposite for the students which concerns me more. I doubt I'll ever wander around campus so it's another of those things I don't have a personal dog in the fight. The students have to put up with it until they get out in the world.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    BTW - who agrees with me that VCU's VAC policy/rule has been weakened by the GMU decision? I read that has having effectively removed the no guns on campus for the general public, but still restricted from the buildings. Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I tend to agree with you GS. I had to think about it after you first shared that idea with me, but it makes perfect sense.

    Unfortunately, it did the opposite for the students which concerns me more. I doubt I'll ever wander around campus so it's another of those things I don't have a personal dog in the fight. The students have to put up with it until they get out in the world.
    Understand the "no dog in the fight", but when someone else is surrounded by a pack of hounds, I am inclined to show my teeth and growl a lot - as I find that you particularly are prone to do. I may back out of an unnecessary fight, but make it a practice to never turn my back on either an aggressor or victim.

    Get a sense that other things are being considered/thought about in the regions not generally open to the public in downtown Richmond/Capital Square. Could/might actually turn out to be a better year than I had thought possible. Giving this a little bit more time.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Get a sense that other things are being considered/thought about in the regions not generally open to the public in downtown Richmond/Capital Square. Could/might actually turn out to be a better year than I had thought possible. Giving this a little bit more time.
    As usual, your senses are working well.
    Everything seems to have come to life now. VCDL is getting the old momentum rolling (Which is refreshing) and members of the GA are being more responsive in the last 2 weeks than they have been in the last two months.

    There have been some big ticket items discussed that no one admits to publicly and more surprises are very likely to be announced shortly.
    One amusing issue that's been hotly discussed, is the Death Star.

    I'll tell you about some of the goins ons the next time I see you

    BTW, I met the Farm Bureau Lobbyist the other day. I think he dog hunts judging by the way he excused himself.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    One amusing issue that's been hotly discussed, is the Death Star.
    Ah yes the infamous Death Star committee. A perfectly shameful example of of how a few (one?) can supplant the will of the people and force the opinion of the extreme minority on the many. Smacks of totalitarianism does it not. This committee's very existence needs to be brought to a vote before the whole assembled body.

    Rules are rules - if our elected representatives do not follow the rules - then what benefit are they - yes I refer to both "rules" and "representatives."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    . . . what about the Library of Virginia?
    Wait, what about the Library of Virginia? I was not aware of any prohibition against carry in the Library of Virginia. I might or might not have OC'd there for lunch on Lobby Day two years ago, and I might or might not have CC'd there this year. Is there something in the Admin Code against carry there?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Incorrect Quote box - deleted by Grapeshot
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Library of Va, Chief Lettner, 1-20-09 Att.#1.jpg 
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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-19-2011 at 10:47 PM. Reason: error
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    Wait, what about the Library of Virginia? I was not aware of any prohibition against carry in the Library of Virginia. I might or might not have OC'd there for lunch on Lobby Day two years ago, and I might or might not have CC'd there this year. Is there something in the Admin Code against carry there?
    They have a sign just inside the outer doors and are a state agency.



    I know it says "No illegal guns allowed" and all of yours are legal, right.

    Also no other weapons of any kind allowed - guess that makes your knife illegal.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-19-2011 at 10:52 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    They have a sign just inside the outer doors and are a state agency.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Library of Va, Chief Lettner, 1-20-09 Att.#1.jpg 
Views:	161 
Size:	94.4 KB 
ID:	5012
    We went round and round with this 1 or 2 years ago about this time. I forget if we got an official answer from them or not.

    As we all should know by now, "illegal gun" is practically meaningless when it comes to self-defensive carry.

    IANAL.

    TFred

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Also no other weapons of any kind allowed - guess that makes your knife illegal.
    Wonder if that'd be a trespassing issue or a weapons issue.

    My knife is not a weapon, it is a tool. Frankly, so is my firearm but I guess I won't get into that.
    Last edited by t33j; 01-19-2011 at 11:12 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    They have a sign just inside the outer doors and are a state agency.



    I know it says "No illegal guns allowed" and all of yours are legal, right.

    Also no other weapons of any kind allowed - guess that makes your knife illegal.
    Darn! I guess I can't take my Street Sweeper or Striker 12 shotguns in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Something I've been meaning to ask since I saw it in a VA Alert. In one of the emails from VCDL it said that even students can now carry on GMU property, just not buildings and events.

    Is this taking into consideration that GMU has a separate university policy that applies to students and employees, that does not specify buildings, but simply university property?

    I was actually thinking about emailing the GMU police dept. to see what they'd say, since they'd be the one enforcing such rule and should be educated regarding the lawsuit outcome.
    I open carry at the Library of Virginia every single week - and have for 5 years (I work less than one block away). I've seen others open carry there several times. We've been through this before, I'm surprised Grapeshot would repeat this rumor. All that little sign says is that ILLEGAL firearms are prohibited (as they are everywhere).

    GMU won in court - but the decision was a mixed bag for them. Their policy has now been interpreted in a binding Supreme Court decision as lawful only to the extent that it applies to campus buildings and public events, meaning elsewhere on campus anyone can now carry a loaded weapon. While the logic of the decision PROBABLY would be applied to all other public universities and colleges based on this Supreme Court decision, the simple fact of the matter is that someone will probably have to be a test case to force a court to rule this way (based on the GMU precedent).
    Last edited by SicSemperTyrannis; 01-20-2011 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Fixed spelling

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Front page story in the Richmond Times Disgrace today about OC in state parks.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Thanked the Governor

    He was at my office for his monthly visit this morning and I personally thanked him for clearing up the open carry in State Parks issue. I also told him that we looked forward to the State Forests getting the same treatment. He made it seem like other places that lacked the administrative authority were also on his list. Sounds like more victories to come. Fingers crossed.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    I open carry at the Library of Virginia every single week - and have for 5 years (I work less than one block away). I've seen others open carry there several times. We've been through this before, I'm surprised Grapeshot would repeat this rumor. All that little sign says is that ILLEGAL firearms are prohibited (as they are everywhere).
    It is not a rumor that state agencies are not covered under preemption nor is it a rumor that the sign misleads the ill informed. There is nothing requiring consistency from one state agency to the next ..... it is rumored.

    Please define an illegal firearm in this context.

    The sign IMO shows a distinct anti-bias, not something in which a state agency should be involved.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-20-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Front page story in the Richmond Times Disgrace today about OC in state parks.
    Comments are so retarded..... "Very good decision. Now on the weekends, when a bunch of yahoos decide to spend the weekend at the park, get drunk and start shooting into the woods, where innocent families are enjoying theirselves. Very sound decision!! I wonder if Kookinelli will try to fight this one!"

    Criminals do not follow the laws, these people do not know anything.

    Can you have a picnic in the state park? we should go for a lunch one saturday in March. Doesn't this apply after 45 days?



    "Gun-control advocates were dismayed by the change.

    "Allowing open carry in state parks could be extremely detrimental to tourism," said Lori Haas of Virginians for Responsible Gun Laws. Haas' daughter was wounded in the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech.

    "How would a family with young children feel if in the campsite next to theirs is an AR-15, an automatic weapon, an assault rifle? This action allows anyone to open carry in state parks. Concealed carry is more than sufficient"

    An automatic weapon? complete idiot.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-20-2011 at 10:19 AM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Lori Haas.
    Does anybody care what she thinks or says anymore?

    She has said the same thing since she first came on the scene. Her organizations are fading into the sunset, broke and exposed for what they are - harbingers of false doom.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KaosDad's Avatar
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    To the Haas' and Goddards of the world......

    That Brady Bill you so love, how'd that work out for you? I can tell you one guy it didn't work out well for...Matthew LaPort. Virginia Tech Cadet and AFROTC Cadet. Trained to arms. Not allowed to carry. Now rests in the hallowed grounds of the Blacksburg cemetary honored witht he White Cords of his fellow band members.

    The Brady Bunch; Creating victims for over 20 years.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

  25. #25
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosDad View Post
    That Brady Bill you so love, how'd that work out for you? I can tell you one guy it didn't work out well for...Matthew LaPort. Virginia Tech Cadet and AFROTC Cadet. Trained to arms. Not allowed to carry. Now rests in the hallowed grounds of the Blacksburg cemetary honored witht he White Cords of his fellow band members.

    The Brady Bunch; Creating victims for over 20 years.
    Brady should go to UK, and camp for banning blunt knifes, I heard knife stabbings where so bad, now they make em blunt. ( is this true? I seen a photo of them before)
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-23-2011 at 07:59 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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