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Sultan, WA "Drug-free/gun-free school zone"?

boosteddreams

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
148
Location
Monroe, WA
Hello all,
Geoff (yamichi) and I were in Sultan the other day and noticed several signs on the streets surrounding schools stating the area was a drug-free/gun-free zone. I looked on the city's website and couldn't find any city codes relating to this. I have never seen these signs anywhere and it was kind of a "WTF?" moment for me. This sounds like a blatant violation of preemption, of course. Does anyone here know anything else about that? Do they consider CPL/CCW holders "exempt" as stated in other (generic) gun-free school zone legislation? Has it been challenged?
 

tannerwaterbury

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
269
Location
Kelso, Washington, USA
Its part of Federal Law that a 1000 Ft zone be established where its gun free. I myself have no clue as to how it hasnt been challenged yet by the NRA or other gun Rights associations.
 

John Hardin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Snohomish, Washington, USA
Its part of Federal Law that a 1000 Ft zone be established where its gun free. I myself have no clue as to how it hasnt been challenged yet by the NRA or other gun Rights associations.

It was already found unconstitutional once and recrafted to add a veneer of constitutionality by only applying to firearms that have "moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

It's probably not gotten a lot of hatred because it does not apply to in-state CPL holders, but the list of problems with it is serious and most people (like me until a few minutes ago) aren't aware of them all.

Challenging it right now would still be bad press, let's get more fundamental USSC decisions on our side first. Something reining in the Commerce Clause abuses that does not involve firearms would be very helpful.
 

boosteddreams

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
148
Location
Monroe, WA
Maybe you don't go to many schools?

That is very true, but I've driven by many (here in Washington, in California, and in Georgia) and have never seen the signs. They kind of took me by surprise.

It was already found unconstitutional once and recrafted to add a veneer of constitutionality by only applying to firearms that have "moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

It's probably not gotten a lot of hatred because it does not apply to in-state CPL holders, but the list of problems with it is serious and most people (like me until a few minutes ago) aren't aware of them all.

Challenging it right now would still be bad press, let's get more fundamental USSC decisions on our side first. Something reining in the Commerce Clause abuses that does not involve firearms would be very helpful.

Thanks for the extra info. I see your point about waiting to challenge it, though it's annoying to think that an OCer without his/her CPL would have to give the schools a wide berth if walking by. Since I have mine, though, and Geoff will have his soon, I think we'll let it lie and just make sure we're well-informed.

Thanks again!
 

07Altima

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Monroe
I have something to add

In order for me to get to my house I have to pass a School no matter what! so I wonder if I will get into trouble for traveling home going past a school when the only way home is past a school. I do not feel that I should have to travel several miles out of the way to avoid the 3 schools from the 3 of 4 roads that lead to my residence. I wonder if I would have a case against the state for telling me that I can not come within 1000 ft. of a school. hell I live less than 1000 ft. from a school to be honest so in order to even have a gun in my home I am in violation of this BS law.
 

07Altima

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Monroe
would that not be in violation of my 2nd Amendment right

If I take my firearm out of my apartment, and walk to my car I am carrying in the 1000 ft. zone is this law not then in violation of the state constitution, as well as the federal.
 

07Altima

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Monroe
also the only exemption

the only exemption is for people dropping off or picking up their kids, well what about me I live 550 ft from one, and 200ft from another that means I am a Criminal for doing nothing wrong, I am a felon just for owning or storing a gun, or driving down the street to leave my house, or a felon just for taking my gun to my car. This really Really makes me angry. Do you guys have that attorney on hand I would love to see what he thinks of this.
 

ak56

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
746
Location
Carnation, Washington, USA
the only exemption is for people dropping off or picking up their kids, well what about me I live 550 ft from one, and 200ft from another that means I am a Criminal for doing nothing wrong, I am a felon just for owning or storing a gun, or driving down the street to leave my house, or a felon just for taking my gun to my car. This really Really makes me angry. Do you guys have that attorney on hand I would love to see what he thinks of this.

You are fine with owning and storing, you just can't take it anywhere. Private property is exempted from the 1000' rule.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
You are fine with owning and storing, you just can't take it anywhere. Private property is exempted from the 1000' rule.

I thought that it had been discussed somewhere that in the course of travel it was ok too, but I could be wrong.

Washington doesn't seem to have concerned itself with this law, that I know of being a Federal law.
 

07Altima

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Monroe
well just to get it home or to walk to the store

I would be violating it if I was just walking to or from the store, or taking it to my house, that is if there is no clause for travel. But the fact remains that there is nowhere in that section any exemptions aside from dropping off or picking up, and there is nothing at all about travel.

Travel may be exempt but it is not listed in the firearm codes, it may however be listed in the school codes.
 

ak56

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
746
Location
Carnation, Washington, USA
I would be violating it if I was just walking to or from the store, or taking it to my house, that is if there is no clause for travel. But the fact remains that there is nowhere in that section any exemptions aside from dropping off or picking up, and there is nothing at all about travel.

Travel may be exempt but it is not listed in the firearm codes, it may however be listed in the school codes.

Just to clarify:

The 1000' zone is only in Federal law.

The exemption for picking up or dropping off students is in State law.

If you have a Washington State CPL, you must follow State Law. With a CPL, you may travel through the 1000' zone with no problem, as state law does not contain any 1000' zone.

If you do not have a Washington State CPL, you are bound by the Federal law.

There are provisions in the Federal law which cover the 'travel' question. You may carry through the 1000' zone in the following manner:
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;
 

Chap

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
213
Location
Greenville, MS
Wow, thanks for opening my eyes to this issue !!!!!!!!

I use to consider myself as being diligent in my researcher prior to plotting my road trips out of Mississippi. I have a Mississippi Concealed Carry Permit/Fire Arms Permit. I carry concealed 24/7 so I conduct research on the Laws for the different states in which I need to travel thru. I have a safe in my vehicle to lock the weapon up to comply with States which don’t recognize my CCW Permit.

Pack-N-Go Carry Concealed Trip Planner - http://test.carryconcealed.net/packngo/index.php

NRAILA: 50 States gun laws
http://www.NRAILA.org/GunLaws/

Book I purchased and keep in the vehicle (Gun laws for the 50 States)
http://www.gunlawguide.com/

I read the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia, listed above in an earlier Post by John Hardin. (Thanks John) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

I agree I am exempt in the State which issued my CCW. ie: Mississippi. :monkey

I guess my concern/question for others who understand this issue is – How would you prepare with traveling outside the Issuing State for your CCW? I’m a believer in being fully compliant with the written law and it’s “intent”.

Let me say while traveling I am oblivious of where school zones are, I will (NOT) be traveling to any schools for any reason. When making my Hotel reservations I never ask if they are within 1000 feet from a school.

Thanks in advance to those who take the time to answer my question.

Chap
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
I use to consider myself as being diligent in my researcher prior to plotting my road trips out of Mississippi. I have a Mississippi Concealed Carry Permit/Fire Arms Permit. I carry concealed 24/7 so I conduct research on the Laws for the different states in which I need to travel thru. I have a safe in my vehicle to lock the weapon up to comply with States which don’t recognize my CCW Permit.

<SNIP>

You might also take note of www.handgunlaw.us as they are very active on keeping their pages up to date, and normally have country wide law updates within a day or two of its happening.

I don't trust or buy books for this purpose, as carry laws are just too fluid right now to trust a book that was written 3 years ago, or even last year.

The FGFSZ law is just plain stupid and out of touch with reality. If it were actually enforced at any real level beyond a "tack on" charge for other grater crimes, we would be seeing a serious issue in the country. I mean seriously, as much as I travel, even though I have permits/licenses that cover me in 36 states, I have probably broken this federal "law" over 1000+ times (according to the letter of that law) just in the last 8 years alone. You cant help but be in violation if you are carrying outside of your home state and don't have a permit/license from the state you happen to be working, living or traveling in at the time, as school zones are EVERYWHERE and not realistically avoidable. Just look at the example of a state like Vermont where everyone who carries is in violation at one point or another.

You learn just how seriously out of touch this law is when you try to carry in California, since they have adopted this law at the state level. Its just one more example of harassment legislation intended to make carry so complicated that it dissuades many from even trying.
 
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