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Thread: H.R. 308 - To prohibit the transfer or possession of large capacity magazines

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    H.R. 308 - To prohibit the transfer or possession of large capacity magazines

    This was just introduced:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-308

    Text added:

    HR 308 IH

    112th CONGRESS

    1st Session

    H. R. 308

    To prohibit the transfer or possession of large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and for other purposes.

    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    January 18, 2011

    Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York (for herself, Mr. CLAY, Ms. NORTON, Mr. WEINER, Ms. ESHOO, Mr. ISRAEL, Mrs. MALONEY, Mr. ACKERMAN, Mr. MORAN, Ms. MCCOLLUM, Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania, Mr. SERRANO, Ms. PINGREE of Maine, Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, Mr. MCGOVERN, Ms. HARMAN, Mr. PASCRELL, Ms. HIRONO, Mr. VAN HOLLEN, Mrs. LOWEY, Mr. NADLER, Ms. EDWARDS, Mr. HASTINGS of Florida, Ms. MATSUI, Ms. WATERS, Mr. CICILLINE, Ms. CHU, Mr. SHERMAN, Mr. HOLT, Mr. CONNOLLY of Virginia, Ms. SLAUGHTER, Mr. ELLISON, Mr. QUIGLEY, Mr. MEEKS, Mr. HIMES, Mr. HONDA, Mr. LANGEVIN, Ms. SPEIER, Mr. COHEN, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. FARR, Mr. YARMUTH, Ms. JACKSON LEE of Texas, Ms. WOOLSEY, Mr. BLUMENAUER, Mr. BISHOP of New York, and Ms. DEGETTE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

    A BILL

    To prohibit the transfer or possession of large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and for other purposes.

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

    This Act may be cited as the ‘Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act’.

    SEC. 2. PROHIBITION ON TRANSFER OR POSSESSION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

    (a) Definition- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after paragraph (29) the following:

    ‘(30) The term ‘large capacity ammunition feeding device’--

    ‘(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

    ‘(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.’.

    (b) Prohibitions- Section 922 of such title is amended by inserting after subsection (u) the following:

    ‘(v)(1)(A)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

    ‘(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

    ‘(B) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

    ‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

    ‘(A) a manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);

    ‘(B) a transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such a licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;

    ‘(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity ammunition feeding device transferred to the individual by the agency upon that retirement; or

    ‘(D) a manufacture, transfer, or possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.’.

    (c) Penalties- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

    ‘(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(v) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.’.

    (d) Identification Markings- Section 923(i) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: ‘A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured after such date of enactment, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.’.
    Last edited by Floyd; 01-19-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    This is just insane,

    just about all magazines then would be gone...

    AIMSURPLUS is SOLD out of ak47 magazines and drums.....
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-19-2011 at 01:49 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Useless and dead on arrival.

    Notes:

    1) There are many firearms that only come with magazines with more than 10 rounds. These firearms would not be transferrable in an operable condition, because the magazines would be verbotten.
    2) Many firearms with an internal capacity of 11 or more would become prohibited, such as the new Kel-Tec tactical shotgun with a 14 round internal capacity, and many lever action rifles!

    Did you see the harsh penalty - 10 years - for violation. If only the penalty for violating our civil rights and the US Constitution was 1/10th of that, we would have more liberty and less tyranny in this land.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post


    This is just insane,

    just about all magazines then would be gone...

    AIMSURPLUS is SOLD out of ak47 magazines and drums.....
    10 years because I have a 12 round magazine for my bolt action .177 HMR rifle??? Why would you think it insane?

    It is only insane to those that understand firearms. To those that pour out hate towards us it is sweet music.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Useless and dead on arrival.

    Notes:

    1) There are many firearms that only come with magazines with more than 10 rounds. These firearms would not be transferrable in an operable condition, because the magazines would be verbotten.
    2) Many firearms with an internal capacity of 11 or more would become prohibited, such as the new Kel-Tec tactical shotgun with a 14 round internal capacity, and many lever action rifles!

    Did you see the harsh penalty - 10 years - for violation. If only the penalty for violating our civil rights and the US Constitution was 1/10th of that, we would have more liberty and less tyranny in this land.
    I forgot about all the lever actions, this bill needs to be killed asap. This would make most firearms illgeal. Only hunting rifles/revolvers/1911's/pee hooters/db shotguns/pumps would be the LEGAL firearms, look at Australia.


    When does this new shotgun come out?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-19-2011 at 02:15 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    Unless I'm reading it wrong, it states that any magazine owned/manufactured AFTER the bill passes would be illegal to posess/transfer.

    ‘(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.
    I think this stands a snowball's chance in hell of passing.
    It's posturing for the CSPAN viewers.
    Last edited by Shovelhead; 01-19-2011 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    Unless I'm reading it wrong, it states that any magazine owned/manufactured AFTER the bill passes would be illegal to posess/transfer.



    I think this stands a snowball's chance in hell of passing.
    It's posturing for the CSPAN viewers.
    Seams the same to me.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Useless and dead on arrival.
    Agreed. However, I dont' think you are completely characterizing it correctly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Notes:

    1) There are many firearms that only come with magazines with more than 10 rounds. These firearms would not be transferrable in an operable condition, because the magazines would be verbotten.
    2) Many firearms with an internal capacity of 11 or more would become prohibited, such as the new Kel-Tec tactical shotgun with a 14 round internal capacity, and many lever action rifles!

    Did you see the harsh penalty - 10 years - for violation. If only the penalty for violating our civil rights and the US Constitution was 1/10th of that, we would have more liberty and less tyranny in this land.
    The text of the bill says it "shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection." That means that any current production firearms and magazines would be allowed, but any new ones after the bill goes into effect would not be. Existing firearms with "high capacity" magazines would still be allowed, it's just that no new ones could be manufactured or imported for civilian use.

    Of course, it's just an all-around bad idea, and it wouldn't actually fix anything. However, we should criticize it for what it is, not for what it's not.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    Unless I'm reading it wrong, it states that any magazine owned/manufactured AFTER the bill passes would be illegal to posess/transfer.
    That is one of the real gems in her legislation. You can own onethat is pre-existing, but you cannot transfer it. Quite an trampling of our personal property rights.

    Give your son your lever action rifle and go to a federal prison for 10 years!

    Here is the exception:

    ‘(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

    See, no transfer exception, only posession.
    Last edited by Thundar; 01-19-2011 at 06:03 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Give your son your lever action rifle and go to a federal prison for 10 years!
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    That is one of the real gems in her legislation. You can own onethat is pre-existing, but you cannot transfer it. Quite an trampling of our personal property rights.

    Give your son your lever action rifle and go to a federal prison for 10 years!
    Incorrect.

    (i) Except as provided in clause (ii), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

    ‘(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

    Both transfer and possession are in clause (i). Clause (ii) exempts all "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" that predate the date of enactment from the entirety of clause (i), both possession and transfer limitations.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    So....how is this interstate commerce again? I can't loan a friend of mine who's also a VA resident a standard capacity magazine (the kind the firearm was designed for) at the range?

    This, the GFSZA, and NFA are all unconstitutional and is not interstate commerce when the item never leaves the state in transfer.

    we need to gut the commerce clause NOW and restore it to its original meaning...to make interstate commerce regular, uniform, between the states.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    So....how is this interstate commerce again? I can't loan a friend of mine who's also a VA resident a standard capacity magazine (the kind the firearm was designed for) at the range?

    This, the GFSZA, and NFA are all unconstitutional and is not interstate commerce when the item never leaves the state in transfer.

    we need to gut the commerce clause NOW and restore it to its original meaning...to make interstate commerce regular, uniform, between the states.
    We would need all pro gunners in house/senate/president. Then declare all gun laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL and thus it is invalid for ANY firearm law. Then if you are legal to own a gun you a free to carry anywhere. I believe ammo companys would make a tons of money, and new companys. If full autos are legal, then people would be shooting 1000's a year.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-19-2011 at 02:31 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    That is one of the real gems in her legislation. You can own onethat is pre-existing, but you cannot transfer it. Quite an trampling of our personal property rights.

    Give your son your lever action rifle and go to a federal prison for 10 years!

    Here is the exception:

    ‘(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

    See, not reansfer exception, only posession.
    You edited while I was writing my response. Now I see your point.

    You are correct. The original AWB (HR3355 in the 103rd Congress) did not apply to possession or transfer of preexisting magazines. This one only lists possession.

    My apologies.

    EDIT: It appears that the only two Virginia Representatives to sign on are Gerry Connelly (VA-11) and Jim Moran (VA-8). Surprise, surprise. I guess it's time for me to write my Congressman to chew him out for signing on to this abomination.
    Last edited by grylnsmn; 01-19-2011 at 02:39 PM.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Kill that Bill!

    Call your congress person now!

    .. or go stock up on High cap magazines. </sarcasm>
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    Kill that Bill!

    Call your congress person now!

    .. or go stock up on High cap magazines. </sarcasm>
    I tried to. I wanted to buy some magazines but aimsurplus is sold out of ak47 magazines
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    Kill that Bill!

    Call your congress person now!

    .. or go stock up on High cap magazines. </sarcasm>
    Of course Connolly is signed on as a co-sponsor already.

    FM(L)egislator!

  18. #18
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    Of course Connolly is signed on as a co-sponsor already.

    FM(L)egislator!
    How do you check the status on the bills?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    How do you check the status on the bills?
    Click on the link and it shows the status and full details:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-308

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Just a note to clarify, this link is for Virginia bills. The subject of this thread is a Federal bill.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURZ3LxYhIY

    Video shows the difference between using an "extended" magazine and a "regular" magazine
    Carry On.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    The worse part is that as it is written now we would have prove that we owned the mags before the ban. Without serialization or even receipts this bill is a jail sentence waiting to happen for millions of gun owners. I agree the is little chance of this passing but should the worst happen I'm thinking I will be putting my mags and attached firearms into a trust like an NFA trust, and said trust will be set up to include family, close friends and folks who haven't been born yet. Keeps the mags in circulation beyond my lifespan. Lawyers are sometimes very useful to keep around.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    The worse part is that as it is written now we would have prove that we owned the mags before the ban. Without serialization or even receipts this bill is a jail sentence waiting to happen for millions of gun owners. I agree the is little chance of this passing but should the worst happen I'm thinking I will be putting my mags and attached firearms into a trust like an NFA trust, and said trust will be set up to include family, close friends and folks who haven't been born yet. Keeps the mags in circulation beyond my lifespan. Lawyers are sometimes very useful to keep around.
    No doubt it's a horrible bill, and I don't think it stands a chance.

    But wouldn't this section mean that any magazine not so marked would have to be assumed to be legal and grandfathered?

    (d) Identification Markings- Section 923(i) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: ‘A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured after such date of enactment, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.’.

    TFred

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    (d) Identification Markings- Section 923(i) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: ‘A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured after such date of enactment, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.’.

    TFred
    I wonder about that, adding another serial number for tracking ads costs and burden to the manufacturer, consumer and taxpayer as new databases are created.

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