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House Bills 4009 and 4010 of 2011 on-line petition

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Dear Michigan Open Carry Members, and fellow 2nd Amendment Right Supporters

A petition to submit to the Michigan State Legislature in regards to House Bills 4009 and 4010 of 2011 has been started. This petition will be submitted to all members of the Michigan State Legislature and to the Governor. I ask that you sign this petition and forward it to everyone you know. Let us send a clear message to those who represent us.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MIHB4009/petition.html
--
Sincerely,

Scott Webb
President - Michigan Open Carry
 

bsf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
21
Location
, ,
I urge people to sign this petition and send the link to others. I do not believe an online petition is even remotely as important as calling legislators' offices or speaking with them face to face, though. Please support the petition IN ADDITION to contacting your reps directly and fostering grass roots support. Please discuss this issue with others likely to support this, assisting them if necessary in contacting our legislators. Thank you.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I urge people to sign this petition and send the link to others. I do not believe an online petition is even remotely as important as calling legislators' offices or speaking with them face to face, though. Please support the petition IN ADDITION to contacting your reps directly and fostering grass roots support. Please discuss this issue with others likely to support this, assisting them if necessary in contacting our legislators. Thank you.

This may make it easier here are their emails and a sample letter. Modify as you feel fit.


JohnWalsh@house.mi.gov; KurtHeise@house.mi.gov; JudGilbert@house.mi.gov;
kennethhorn@house.mi.gov; PaulScott@house.mi.gov; KurtDamrow@house.mi.gov; PaulMuxlow@house.mi.gov;
BradJacobsen@house.mi.gov; PeterPettalia@house.mi.gov; patsomerville@house.mi.gov; markmeadows@house.mi.gov; bobconstan@house.mi.gov; stacyerwinoakes@house.mi.gov; lisabrown@house.mi.gov; jeffirwin@house.mi.gov; philcavanagh@house.mi.gov; johnolumba@house.mi.gov


Dear Committee Chairman:

I am in favor of rescinding all gun-free zones in Michigan and support HB-4009 . Gun-Free zones do not prevent crime or violence; in fact they encourage just the opposite. I'm asking you to forward this bill on to the House.

Gun-free zones are killing zones. Criminals intent on harm ignore gun-free zones and see them as a place to commit their atrocities with little chance of being harmed by law-abiding citizens. Why, because law-abiding gun owners follow the law? Studies have shown that lawful gun-owners are among the most law-abiding segment of society, committing fewer crimes than even law enforcement officers.

In this country the most heinous and largest mass killings occur in gun free zones i.e., schools, churches, Military Bases and Malls to name a few. What you don’t see are mass murders in gun stores, police stations and gun ranges or other places people are allowed to bear arms. What differentiates these places is that in one law –abiding citizens are denied the inalienable right to bear arms. Criminals are not going to plan an attack of mass murder in a place where people have a reasonable chance of defending themselves.

The murderous and devastating experiment of gun-free zones has run its course. They do not work. Decades of mass murders have proved this time and time again. The time has come to once again give law-abiding citizens the means necessary to take on the responsibility of defending themselves and their loved ones against evil in all public places. Please remove Gun-free zones in Michigan. It's the right thing to do.

Sincerely,
 

kubel

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
285
Location
, ,
Signed it (twice on accident, clicked refresh trying to see if the number of petitioners increased and it resubmitted apparently).

Anyway, I posted a link on my facebook wall and encourage you all to do the same.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
I would say 250,000 more would be optimal. Seeing as how their are over 250,000 CPL holders in Michigan, and many people whom support those people.

As of January 3, 2011, there are 190,809 cpl holders in Michigan. Just a note, you must subtract all of the people denied, expired CPLs, revoked CPLs, from the number of CPLs approved.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
As of January 3, 2011, there are 190,809 cpl holders in Michigan. Just a note, you must subtract all of the people denied, expired CPLs, revoked CPLs, from the number of CPLs approved.

Do you have a link and/or calc for this? I ask since I recently did some calcs against the MI Population to come up with a number for reference purposes (1 in 28 are MI CPL Holders).

Is MCRGO wrong on their front page with the number of MI CPL Holders?

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Do you have a link and/or calc for this? I ask since I recently did some calcs against the MI Population to come up with a number for reference purposes (1 in 28 are MI CPL Holders).

Is MCRGO wrong on their front page with the number of MI CPL Holders?

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/

I just checked the latest CCW (sic) reports put out by the state police. One needs to look at the grand total at the end of the report for cpls issued and subtract all of the columns that follow ie revoked, denied, expired, etc. I don't know where the MCGRO gets their numbers but many posters have almost always given the numbers as higher. I just went back to the data and realized that the number denied would NOT need to be subtracted, so the true number would be 196,644... still much less than the number you gave.
Source:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-77621--,00.html
 
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PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
I just checked the latest CCW (sic) reports put out by the state police. One needs to look at the grand total at the end of the report for cpls issued and subtract all of the columns that follow ie revoked, denied, expired, etc. I don't know where the MCGRO gets their numbers but many posters have almost always given the numbers as higher. I just went back to the data and realized that the number denied would NOT need to he subtracted, so the true number would be 196,644... still much less than the number you gave.
Source:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-77621--,00.html


Could they be using this report:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ccw_county_report_approved_273955_7.pdf
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
As of January 3, 2011, there are 190,809 cpl holders in Michigan. Just a note, you must subtract all of the people denied, expired CPLs, revoked CPLs, from the number of CPLs approved.

I believe you can take the Approved Number as it stands.

To come up with it another way, you would take last row of the following report for the calcs.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ccw_county_report_273948_7.pdf

TOTALS COLUMN (as in the total number of CPL Applications)
MINUS
DENIED, EXPIRED, PENDING, REVOKED, SUSPENDED, WITHDRAWN
SHOULD EQUAL
APPROVED COLUMN
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Unlikely, as a revoked permit would have to be taken from the approved permit, as would a denied renewal... that permit is no longer valid. Some time ago, maybe 4 years now, I posed the question to our county clerk. Her response seemed to match what I am thinking, as I recall. A person gets a permit in 2005 and renews in 2010, that would be 2 in the total. If a person gets one approved in 2005, is suspended in 2006, and gets it back (renewed), then gets it renewed due to the fact it expired in 2010, that would be 5 ( 1 approval, one suspended, one expired and 2 renewals) in the total. The point of the CCW reports is to show the amount of work the county gun boards do, not to be used to determine the number of active permits. So, although both of us have come to a different conclusion, I guess the real answer would only be attainable if the MSP would explain how the numbers are attained. I also believe that I read somewhere that some boards have, over the last few years, not informed the MSP of renewals, approved, or suspensions due to their anger at not being able to cover their cost of issuance with their portion of the fee. If that is true, then the true number could be higher or lower and no one would really know.
 
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DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
I believe you can take the Approved Number as it stands.

To come up with it another way, you would take last row of the following report for the calcs.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ccw_county_report_273948_7.pdf

TOTALS COLUMN (as in the total number of CPL Applications)
MINUS
DENIED, EXPIRED, PENDING, REVOKED, SUSPENDED, WITHDRAWN
SHOULD EQUAL
APPROVED COLUMN

Of course, as the total is only a marker of how busy the board is, not how many holders there are
 
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DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
All data from http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ccw_county_report_273948_7.pdf


Now that I am on a computer, here is how I think the numbers really play out: (Hey, I'm admitting error :)

APPROVED 255,874 -(minus)
EXPIRED 47,000 -(minus)
REVOKED 1,593 -(minus)
SUSPENDED 4,375

currently active licensees: 202,906 licensees

However, the assumption here is that all suspended still are... this can't be true, but we don't know. So this number would be worse case, with the suspended being adjustable. So, the range would be between 202,906 (all still suspended) and 207,281 (no current suspensions). Still a far cry from 250,000+, but a little better than my 196,644)
 
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