Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 276

Thread: MOC Members hassled in Capitol Area District Library

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    MOC Members hassled in Capitol Area District Library

    Venator and I were in CADL's downtown branch today to attend the meeting on their weapon's policy and MCL 123.1102. We weren't packing, OC or otherwise.

    The Security guard (older and more vocal one in the video) approached Venator and I as we sat at a table on the first floor to use our computers before the meeting began. He asked if we were carrying any weapons today. Venator and I refused to answer. The security guard told us we will be unable to go upstairs and attend the meeting until we answered.

    Venator: we're going upstairs anyhow.
    Guard: no you aren't.
    Venator: you'll have to call the cops to stop us
    Guard: okay.

    What transpires in the video is what happened after the cops arrived. I missed the first minute of the encounter.










    Sorry the video is rotated 90 degrees, I was trying to get everyone in the frame.
    Last edited by TheQ; 01-20-2011 at 09:22 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Sound is not coming through for me... I checked other YouTube Video's, which seem to work fine...

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    No Audio

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    No Audio
    I'll try to fix it when I get home.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811
    No audio for me either.

    Ill be up there as soon as i can.

    **update 6:20PM**
    Scanners are goin off on you guys...recording it as i am writing this
    Last edited by lil_freak_66; 01-19-2011 at 06:25 PM.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    I'm getting too old for this. Nice adrenalin dump after. Enjoying a nice scotch on the rocks and kicking back.

    Apparently the LPD was waiting for us outside in vehicles and there was some radio traffic on whether they should pull us over. For what? Those comments were nothing more than payback for standing up for civil rights. They just don't get it. I drove very safely out of town. The Q lives in Lansing so I don't know if he was stopped or not. No calls from him yet.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Video audio fixed.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I'm getting too old for this. Nice adrenalin dump after. Enjoying a nice scotch on the rocks and kicking back.

    Apparently the LPD was waiting for us outside in vehicles and there was some radio traffic on whether they should pull us over. For what? Those comments were nothing more than payback for standing up for civil rights. They just don't get it. I drove very safely out of town. The Q lives in Lansing so I don't know if he was stopped or not. No calls from him yet.
    Sorry to see this happen to you guys.

    File a damn complaint with the department and with the Michigan Attorney General - Clear Violation of 4th Amendment to US Constitution and Article I Section 11 of the Michigan Constitution. They are out of hand and need to be dealt with.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Notice the board member speaking wants safety for family's yet deprives them of the ability to protect them. All silly emotion and no logic.

    When I posed this question to her in the elevator she couldn't come up with a logical answer. I mentioned that all you did was keep law-abidding citizens out as they respect the policy and criminal won't care. I also asked her how many shootings occur in police stations, gun shows, ranges, etc. That paused her for a second. I left her with, good luck with your policy, I'm sure it will keep armed criminals out.

    Also the weekly City Pulse reporter was there and interview Q and I, we left before he talked to any board members.
    Last edited by Venator; 01-20-2011 at 12:00 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_EiLmrfmw

    Some of the scanner audio,i recorded what i had,as i came onto the scanner after it had already started.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  11. #11
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Notice the board members speaking wants safety for family's yet deprives them of the ability to protect them. All silly emotion and no logic.

    When I posed this question to her in the elevator she couldn't come up with a logical answer. I mentioned that all you did was keep law-abidding citizens out as they respect the policy and criminal won't care. I also asked her how many shooting occur in police station, gun shows, ranges, etc. That paused her for a second. I left her with, good luck with your policy, I'm sure it will keep armed criminals out.

    Also the weekly City Pulse reporter was there and interview Q and I, we left before he talked to any board members.
    So, help me understand here.

    How is this library chartered? Who owns the property? On what legal basis did they believe they could ban firearms?

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    So, help me understand here.

    How is this library chartered? Who owns the property? On what legal basis did they believe they could ban firearms?
    The Library is an "Authority" which is a Corporation owned by the City of Lansing and the County of Ingham. 95% of their income comes from local property taxes or other public funding sources.

    It is claimed the property is owned by the Lansing School District and leased to CADL.

    They wouldn't comment on what legal authority they have. They only said their attorney advised them not to comment in case of litigation.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Even if it were school owned, OC would be legal with CPL

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    ...

    Video isn't working for me. Could you post the link???

  15. #15
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The Library is an "Authority" which is a Corporation owned by the City of Lansing and the County of Ingham. 95% of their income comes from local property taxes or other public funding sources.

    It is claimed the property is owned by the Lansing School District and leased to CADL.

    They wouldn't comment on what legal authority they have. They only said their attorney advised them not to comment in case of litigation.
    That is because they know they will most likely lose a court case. Since they are formed from a City and a County, then they cannot have any more authority than those two entities. MI Firearm Preemption Applies due to this.

  16. #16
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Even if it were school owned, OC would be legal with CPL
    This is EXACTLY correct.

  17. #17
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    MI Firearm Preemption Applies due to this.
    Venator told them that. Stone walled faces, no comments.

    BTW, the vote was unanimous to keep the policy.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    God god after listening to the radio traffic what the hell did they expect we would do? I was nothing but a gentleman during the meeting, I respected their unlawful policy, man what scardy cats. After all we were unarmed and posed no threat. This country is farther gone then I ever thought. Sad really.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  19. #19
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336
    I believe that this Library is acting outside the law.

    Here are what they are opening themselves up to:

    1. Denial of Civil Rights Lawsuit.
    2. Misdemeanor Prosecution under MCL 752.11.
    3. Losing a Lawsuit based upon MCL 123.1102 (filing an Injunction against Enforcement).

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-752-11

    Time to show up at the Lansing City Council/Commission Meeting and inform them of such. Same thing with Ingham County.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 01-19-2011 at 07:39 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Even if it were school owned, OC would be legal with CPL
    Theres other things to consider,they claim it is leased(and even so,that would only apply to that particular building)

    And from what i and i believe TheQ have researched,theres no proof that the building is school owned anyways.

    The school thing,no matter what wouldnt be able to fly for all the buildings,just this one.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    They are calling us out, they feel we don't have the resources to stop them as they feel only a law suit will settle this. Too bad that only the library attorney has anything to gain by this as he will have a ton of billable hours. I guess the library is flush with tax-payer dollars to fight this.

    So should we fight this? If we do we will need help both financial and with emails to the board, city, etc... The Chairpersons email is bossenberym@gmail.com .
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    In regards to the LPD radio traffic. I guess that heavy-set guy moves well as he seemed to disappear into the misty darkness of night. Forget The Bat Man...enter The FAT MAN....able to leap wide sidewalk cracks with a single leap, and faster than a speeding glacier.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    So should we fight this? If we do we will need help both financial and with emails to the board, city, etc... The Chairpersons email is bossenberym@gmail.com .
    I hear MOC has a $1,000 match offer from a member who will match donations going towards a fund to fight this law in court.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQsAidan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lansing
    Posts
    8
    Hi everybody. I was at the library meeting with Venator and TheQ (and my 10 year old son). My son and I weren't stopped by security when we came in. Of course, we were a woman and a kid... not "known troublemakers". I also knew where to go for the meeting and didn't bother to ask the guy for directions. The older gentleman wasn't at the desk when I came in. He was already up on the 3rd floor keeping an eye on the boardroom from the hallway.

    My son and I left immediately after the meeting, and we didn't see any police on our way out. I was parked on Kalamazoo directly out the front door... not like I was trying to sneak out or anything. So... the cops didn't see me... they didn't see Vernator. The only one that they saw leaving the library was the guy parked right in front of the cop car. Makes me feel real confident about their powers of observation.

    Anyway... the impression I got from the library board was that they had already made up their minds and were only listening to us as a formality.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I hear MOC has a $1,000 match offer from a member who will match donations going towards a fund to fight this law in court.
    if this is true, i will scrape together what i can for the fight. i would imagine that we won't need much money to fight it overall considering there is already established case law.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 01-19-2011 at 08:47 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •