MOC Members hassled in Capitol Area District Library

Venator · Jan 19, 2011

They are calling us out, they feel we don't have the resources to stop them as they feel only a law suit will settle this. Too bad that only the library attorney has anything to gain by this as he will have a ton of billable hours. I guess the library is flush with tax-payer dollars to fight this. :uhoh:

So should we fight this? If we do we will need help both financial and with emails to the board, city, etc... The Chairpersons email is bossenberym@gmail.com .

Venator · Jan 19, 2011

In regards to the LPD radio traffic. I guess that heavy-set guy moves well as he seemed to disappear into the misty darkness of night. Forget The Bat Man...enter The FAT MAN....able to leap wide sidewalk cracks with a single leap, and faster than a speeding glacier.

TheQ · Jan 19, 2011

Venator said:
So should we fight this? If we do we will need help both financial and with emails to the board, city, etc... The Chairpersons email is bossenberym@gmail.com .

I hear MOC has a $1,000 match offer from a member who will match donations going towards a fund to fight this law in court.

TheQsAidan · Jan 19, 2011

Hi everybody. I was at the library meeting with Venator and TheQ (and my 10 year old son). My son and I weren't stopped by security when we came in. Of course, we were a woman and a kid... not "known troublemakers". I also knew where to go for the meeting and didn't bother to ask the guy for directions. The older gentleman wasn't at the desk when I came in. He was already up on the 3rd floor keeping an eye on the boardroom from the hallway.

My son and I left immediately after the meeting, and we didn't see any police on our way out. I was parked on Kalamazoo directly out the front door... not like I was trying to sneak out or anything. So... the cops didn't see me... they didn't see Vernator. The only one that they saw leaving the library was the guy parked right in front of the cop car. Makes me feel real confident about their powers of observation.

Anyway... the impression I got from the library board was that they had already made up their minds and were only listening to us as a formality.

smellslikemichigan · Jan 19, 2011

TheQ said:
I hear MOC has a $1,000 match offer from a member who will match donations going towards a fund to fight this law in court.

if this is true, i will scrape together what i can for the fight. i would imagine that we won't need much money to fight it overall considering there is already established case law.

stainless1911 · Jan 19, 2011

TheQsAidan welcome

Bearhawk · Jan 19, 2011

At this point, since they won't budge, don't you just turn this over to the Michigan Attorney General? They do have to follow the law. I thought I read somewhere once they have been informed and they won't resolve it you can go to the AG. They won't get fined but their hand will be forced by the AG. No lawsuit is needed since MCRGO vs Ferndale has tested MCL 123.1102 and appeals confirmed it as good law. Why spend money on a lawsuit when the AG can get involved.

IANAl but I thought I read that was the process.

PDinDetroit · Jan 19, 2011

TheQsAidan said:
...
Anyway... the impression I got from the library board was that they had already made up their minds and were only listening to us as a formality.

Welcome to OCDO!

Yes, this is the norm when dealing with most "local units of government", the meeting is mostly a formality. We still go and ask them to follow the law, some do change their minds...

malignity · Jan 19, 2011

Venator said:
So should we fight this? If we do we will need help both financial and with emails to the board, city, etc... The Chairpersons email is bossenberym@gmail.com .

I think we should. Not just MOC, but MGO, MCRGO, etc. There's been talks about doing a joint operation, well, this could be it.

If we DO NOT fight this, I believe more cities will not take MOC seriously in the future and will not budge on their laws, even if they are against state law.

stainless1911 · Jan 19, 2011

I think it should be it. Every effort was made, the location is ideal, parts of it have video documentation, the players were unarmed, law enforcement was there refusing to enforce the law, and the followup audio that was provided. Its perfect, don't let this slip guys!

scot623 · Jan 19, 2011

MOC leadership is having preliminary discussions on what the next step should be. I can confirm the offer of $1000 in matching funds if a lawsuit is to be undertaken.

TheQ · Jan 19, 2011

CADL's Code of Conduct says NOTHING about recording devices. If I am going to file a complaint I think it will be with DK Security and the CADL Director. This security guard is clearly making up the rules as he goes.

See 0:15 of this video.

Guard: Sir, the use of video cameras is prohibited inside the Library without permission of the director.

No such policy/rule, guy!

PDinDetroit · Jan 19, 2011

It should be made clear that there are 2 separate issues here:

1. Person(s) who potentially had their rights violated.
2. CADL Non-Compliance with MCL 123.1102.

For #1, I urge the people involved to file the appropriate complaints.

For #2, I believe that there are currently discussions on-going to determine a direction to be taken. I believe, at a minimum, this issue should be raised to the Lansing City Council/Commission and to Ingham County as well since they created CADL.

lil_freak_66 · Jan 19, 2011

Venator said:
In regards to the LPD radio traffic. I guess that heavy-set guy moves well as he seemed to disappear into the misty darkness of night. Forget The Bat Man...enter The FAT MAN....able to leap wide sidewalk cracks with a single leap, and faster than a speeding glacier.

Brian you owe me a chair!

I broke mine when i fell over laughing...

Id donate funds to a Lawsuit.

RabbiVJ · Jan 20, 2011

i love how #3 says "to the fullest extent of the law..." they know they are in violation of MCL 123.1102, they are a PUBLIC library paid for by PUBLIC funds...and controlled by the COUNTY of ingham and the CITY of lansing. Id say sue em...im all for it and id be willing to donate as well.

Onnie · Jan 20, 2011

Venator said:
In regards to the LPD radio traffic. I guess that heavy-set guy moves well as he seemed to disappear into the misty darkness of night. Forget The Bat Man...enter The FAT MAN....able to leap wide sidewalk cracks with a single leap, and faster than a speeding glacier.

I stand with you brother, as a slim waist-line challenged American I found the reports of the "heavy-set Male" belittling, I hear no reports of a "skinny male" or a "well built male".

why do they always pick on us! lol

Good thing I don't have thick skin to go along with my think waist!

Onnie · Jan 20, 2011

TheQ said:
CADL's Code of Conduct says NOTHING about recording devices. If I am going to file a complaint I think it will be with DK Security and the CADL Director. This security guard is clearly making up the rules as he goes.

See 0:15 of this video.

Guard: Sir, the use of video cameras is prohibited inside the Library without permission of the director.

No such policy/rule, guy!

can some one cite law where a security guard is allowed more authority then police officers on government propriety. Am I wrong, or are we now required to answer ALL questions any rental cop ask us? I DON'T THINK SO.

I don't think you two were compelled by LAW to admit you were carrying or not to him, the police officers there, MAYBE, but not to to guard, after all he has no police authority or does he in this case? AGAIN I DON'T THINK SO

You two were guilty by association alone and that is objectionable!

Onnie · Jan 20, 2011

RabbiVJ said:
i love how #3 says "to the fullest extent of the law..." they know they are in violation of MCL 123.1102, they are a PUBLIC library paid for by PUBLIC funds...and controlled by the COUNTY of ingham and the CITY of lansing. Id say sue em...im all for it and id be willing to donate as well.

+1

SkipCoryell · Jan 20, 2011

MCRGO Attorney

I'll ask the MCRGO Corporate Attorney to send them a letter. Sometimes that helps.
If it doesn't (and it may not, they sound stubborn) then I'll donate $100 to the legal fund
and teach CPL classes that you set up with all profits going to the fund.

Skip

TheQ · Jan 20, 2011

SkipCoryell said:
I'll ask the MCRGO Corporate Attorney to send them a letter. Sometimes that helps.
If it doesn't (and it may not, they sound stubborn) then I'll donate $100 to the legal fund
and teach CPL classes that you set up with all profits going to the fund.

Skip

Skip,

I've never met you before or seen any of your posts, yet I have a feeling I will like you. Thank you!

MOC Members hassled in Capitol Area District Library

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