MOC Members hassled in Capitol Area District Library

We shouldnt be hindered from using the public learning facilities either. They picked the battle, but it is our fight to be fought. This needs to be pushed to any level necessary to bring them in liner with the law and safety. Walk away now, and watch others follow their lead.

DrTodd said:

I echo the sentiment that, here in Mich. at least, tape over the serial number may cause some issues. I don't recall that we have had a numbers check on any OCer's firearm in the last 2 years... and I only recall a few times before that when OC was more of an unknown.

The 4 times I have had contact with PD while OCing or CCing (OCing in a car, really), I have never had them ask to see my pistol... they just ask where it is.

The first time I gave them my CPL, the second and third time, I just told them "I am carrying a Legal Firearm concealed on or about my person"... didn't even mention the actual CPL or offer it.

Oh, the third time the Deputy asked what I carried, I answered a Glock 23, and he said he really likes his.

The last time (New Year's) I informed the officer I was carrying concealed (but was OC too), the officer asked to see my license. He gave it back after looking at it for just 1-2 seconds. But, I have never been asked to give the officer my firearm... although the cop on New Year's Eve tried sneak up behind me and yank it out. :banghead:

Do they run serial numbers of OCers in Wisc.? I know Wisc. has no provision for concealed carry out amongst the public... so I won't ask about that. (Hope for a change soon!)

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Just FYI I've had the serial number on my gun run 3 times that I can think of off the top of my head in the last 2 years. Although haven't had any problems the last 11 months or so. 2 of those 3 times were when I got BS charges like failure to disclose. The other time I was cuffed in car for 45 min and released with no charges. No RAS in any of those cases other than OC'ing.

TheSzerdi said:

Just FYI I've had the serial number on my gun run 3 times that I can think of off the top of my head in the last 2 years. Although haven't had any problems the last 11 months or so. 2 of those 3 times were when I got BS charges like failure to disclose. The other time I was cuffed in car for 45 min and released with no charges. No RAS in any of those cases other than OC'ing.

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About the same for me. Just never got cuffed. But my gun has been run many times since I started OCing, never with legit RAS or permission. But yep, it happens when you encounter felons on patrol.

Personally,i feel unarmed(and probably untrained) security is a waste of money,i just dont see what good they do...

lil_freak_66 said:

Personally,i feel unarmed(and probably untrained) security is a waste of money,i just dont see what good they do...

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Unarmed security is like half the price of armed security, They are there to make little old ladies who shop there feel secure (so they come back), so it is a good investment.

lil_freak_66 said:

Personally,i feel unarmed(and probably untrained) security is a waste of money,i just dont see what good they do...

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It's security theater, like the TSA.

...

MarineSgt said:

It's security theater, like the TSA.

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Read Bruce Schnierer(sp?) much?

lil_freak_66 said:

Personally,i feel unarmed(and probably untrained) security is a waste of money,i just dont see what good they do...

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Well... without trying to be a jerk please consider this....

What good do they do? The ones in the library managed to enforce that illegal policy by hounding the folks open carrying until they left.

Yes, I know the folks who left had concluded their business at the library and then made the decision to leave.... but... it appeared to everyone else in that library that the security guards ran you out. So to the other patrons it ended up...

Security guards (and library anti gun policy) = 1

Open carry folks legally carrying guns = 0 ... zip... nada... made to look like fools.

The only reason a person dressed in an official looking uniform with an attitude of authority actually works on the general public is because, from infancy, we are trained to obey those who have authority over us. In most cases a security guard in a public place has exactly as much authority as my grandma has over you.... none, nada, zip. But, because we have been told to obey we generally do IF the person issuing orders appears to have the authority to do so (has a fancy uniform and an overbearing manner) ... whether they actually have any authority or not.

And faux police (security guards) rely on that obedience.... otherwise, if folks don't bow to the appearance of authority, all they can do is follow you around and act intimidating and overbearing hoping to scare you into doing what they told you to do. And no matter how long a person stays with security hovering around.. the minute they leave the illusion that the illegal policy is valid and the security guards have the authority to enforce that policy is burned into the minds of anyone watching as a truth. And that also goes for anyone who reads or hears about someone leaving after being told to by security because people will automatically think..... "The security guards must have been right or else why would the person leave?"

So ... what good do unarmed security guards do? They keep those in control.. in control.. because we let them.

Bikenut said:

Security guards (and library anti gun policy) = 1

Open carry folks legally carrying guns = 0 ... zip... nada... made to look like fools.

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Sounds familiar.

TheQ said:

Read Bruce Schnierer(sp?) much?

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Who?

its a library,most of the things are free!

besides,from what i can tell...the library gets at least half of they're business from kids skipping school and the homeless.

MarineSgt said:

Who?

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http://www.schneier.com/

He coined the phrase "security theatre".

Bikenut said:

Yes, I know the folks who left had concluded their business at the library and then made the decision to leave.... but... it appeared to everyone else in that library that the security guards ran you out. So to the other patrons it ended up...

Security guards (and library anti gun policy) = 1

Open carry folks legally carrying guns = 0 ... zip... nada... made to look like fools.
.

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I would agree, leaving quickly gives the impression you were either forced to or too scared to stay, both look bad for our cause.

detroit_fan said:

I would agree, leaving quickly gives the impression you were either forced to or too scared to stay, both look bad for our cause.

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So stay and do what you came to do or don't go armed.

TheQ said:

http://www.schneier.com/

He coined the phrase "security theatre".

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I don't know why but the words "security theater" remind me of "minority report"..............

Library Shootings

For all the anti's out there who say you don't need to carry a gun in a library for protection...

http://www.fortbendnow.com/2010/09/28/48064

http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?cID=3&id=257204

http://www.theranger.org/witnesses-testify-to-details-of-library-shooting-1.2360129

These are just a few examples of the fact that crime and dangerous situations can happen anywhere.

Excellent post, you should send this to the library staff, but take care as to how it's worded.

The most Dangerous Library in the World by Lansing City Pulse.

TheQ said:

[URL="http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-5487-the-most-dangerous-library-in-the-world.html]The most Dangerous Library in the World[/URL] by Lansing City Pulse.

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Nice article. Good work!