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Thread: Ransom Public Library, Plainwell, in Allegan County

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bearhawk's Avatar
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    Ransom Public Library, Plainwell, in Allegan County

    Ransom District Library in Plainwell, Allegan County in violation

    Reading the Big Rapids Library thread got me to look at the policies at my local library. I was shocked to find "Patrons are not permitted to engage in the following behaviors on Library property:
    * Carrying a weapon in the Library unless carried by an officer on duty

    Well, I hope you don't mind me plagiarizing a bit but I used parts of the letter to Big Rapids but modified it as I am not officially with MOC but I love what you guys are doing for the cause of freedom. Seeing the need to make a wrong right below is what I sent:
    ---------------------------
    Ransom District Library
    180 S. Sherwood Ave
    Plainwell, MI 49080

    Dear Katie Bell Moore:

    As a local citizen, I am inquiring about the firearm ban in your library. My inquiry is regarding your unlawful prohibition of firearms by law abiding citizens. It is my hope that you just don't realize that your policy 12 is in direct violation of state laws and similar policies by other libraries have been shown in court that they violate citizen's rights and are not tolerated. Your policy is preempted by state law. The specific policy that is in violation is stated as follows:

    Patrons are not permitted to engage in the following behaviors on Library property:

    * Carrying a weapon in the Library unless carried by an officer on duty

    As you may know in 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-123-1102) which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    In fact the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled on this in City of Ferndale vs. MCRGO’s. This case involved a local library’s ban on firearms. The court decided that the library could not ban firearms as they were a part of a local government. Below are some excerpts from the decision.

    THE MICHIGAN COURT OF APPEALS CONCLUDED:
    April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237

    In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

    Therefore it has been decided in the courts and by statute that a public library cannot ban firearms. Therefore, I am asking you to advise your staff on this issue and if needed to remove any signage banning firearms from your libraries.

    I ask that you respond with your compliance within 5 business days. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

    With all due respect,
    My name
    Gun Plain Twp
    ---------------------

    I will post any response. I might need your help if they refuse. If refused I will also contact MCRGO

    http://www.ransomlibrary.org/ransom/...icy%20No.%2012
    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured...
    but no one must prove they are a citizen!” Ben Stein

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    That's why I posted it, for freedom lovers to use as they see fit. Keep us in the loop. Hopefully there will be some changes to the preemption bill in the legislature to include district, authorities, colleges, etc. so there is no gray areas.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    That's why I posted it, for freedom lovers to use as they see fit. Keep us in the loop. Hopefully there will be some changes to the preemption bill in the legislature to include district, authorities, colleges, etc. so there is no gray areas.
    On it next!

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    Regular Member Bearhawk's Avatar
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    Wouldn't you know it, I sent the letter Monday night and Tuesday I was invited to their Board of Trustees meeting on Tuesday night 1/18/11.

    I went and they were pretty respectful. I first passed out a printout of MCL 123.1102 so they could see it then I read it to them. The funny moment was the comment "if people can carry guns here I'll never come here." Add to it looking over little glasses made my visit priceless. Wish I had that on video. They had no signs posted against firearms so I am sure many people do carry in there everyday unbeknown to any of them because most people aren't going to read the library's policy.

    There were the questions asked that you would expect like "Do you feel you need to carry a gun in here?", and "Do you always carry a gun?, and "Do you have a CCW?". I answered their questions but the more I think of it I should have just said those questions are irrelevant. What is relevant is their written policy violates state law and needs to be brought into compliance of the law. I didn't do that and I answered their questions. I don't have a CCW therefore I can have a CPL. I explained the difference. I explained that we can all defend ourselves. When asked why I carry I answered "Jared Loughner types!"

    Other than the expected questions it was good. The President of the board expressed that they do want to follow state law and will. They want to do a little more research and to give him a call in a month. One gal had researched MCRGO vs Ferndale and confirmed what I wrote and even confirmed what the appeals court said and the MI Supreme court denying a second appeal. That was good.

    It was explained that they got their policies from some library association and adopted it. They thought it was probably adopted before MCRGO vs Ferndale.

    Overall, I wish I would have just stuck to the point that their policy needed updated to conform to the laws of Michigan. I'm sure some thought I was a "gun nut" but I did try to keep that to a minimum. Anyone bucking the system will get labeled. They were nice enough they may not have thought that but I have big shoulders if they did.

    I'll report back when I hear back from them in a month or so. I think it was a positive meeting but I think I could have done better to just stick to the task at hand.
    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured...
    but no one must prove they are a citizen!” Ben Stein

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Sounds like you handled yourself well. Good job!

    Also, it sounds like they will abide by the law, which is also good.

    We learn by making mistakes, which means that we are supposed to make them. It can be tough to stay on topic when asked questions. If we carry the attitude that we are just trying to help, then whatever we say can go a long way.

    I look back at how I responded to questions and presented myself during the Royal Oak Arts, Beats, & Eats Issue. I definitely found items to work on - I was very nervous to be on TV and in front of the Royal Oak City Commission! Now, I have been back to the Royal Oak City Commission Meetings and have done very well based upon what I learned.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Nice job! It IMOP is each of our jobs to work in our home turf to correct these issues so that others less familiar in the are do not have issues when they visit.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  7. #7
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Sounds like you did a great job. Sometime in order to get your point across you must go outside of the scope. Before you can ever get your point across they have to "like what they see".

    Imagine if you walked in in fatigues, a starched little hat like Castro and demanded that they change their policy by pounding your fists. Immediately you would have been taken as a nut case and dismissed, and instead of a positive reaction, you would have been received negatively.

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    You are having better luck than I am in Kent County. I was able to get two municipalities to change their ordinances/laws and 15 others who haven't even acknowledge my emails. Except for one township supervisor who said I was threatening them with my email.

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