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Question for you 1911 carriers

Max

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
335
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
I have noticed that most people carrying a 1911 carry in condition 1, cocked and locked. Is carrying in condition 2 that much different? Can't one cock the hammer as quickly as one can remove the safety? Isn't condition 2 a bit safer then condition 1?
 

skorittnig

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
89
Location
Neenah, WI
I have noticed that most people carrying a 1911 carry in condition 1, cocked and locked. Is carrying in condition 2 that much different? Can't one cock the hammer as quickly as one can remove the safety? Isn't condition 2 a bit safer then condition 1?

As long as the bad guy understands that he must "count to 5" before beginning his assault on you and your family- leaving you ample time to draw, grasp the gun firmly, and cock your hammer.

:lol: I'm kidding--I have seen this question arise on other forums, the most common answer is carry however you are comfortable, and understand its benefits/disadvantages. Personally, I believe the 1911 has enough safeties (grip safety, thumb safety, half-cock) to carry cocked and locked.. Read this article, and decide for yourself.

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I have noticed that most people carrying a 1911 carry in condition 1, cocked and locked. Is carrying in condition 2 that much different? Can't one cock the hammer as quickly as one can remove the safety? Isn't condition 2 a bit safer then condition 1?

Cond 1 is the correct way to carry a 1911 - Cocked w/ safety on. Condition 2 , means you must cock the weapon, and when you only a have a second or 2 to react condition 2 is not the way to go.
 

swfaninwi

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Wisconsin
Condition 1 all the way

A 1911 is meant to be carried with an unloaded chamber (condition 3) or cocked and locked (condition 1). Condition 2 is dangerous. If you can’t carry in either state, don’t carry it. Buy a Glock, etc.

“Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.”

http://www.m1911.org/technic10.htm
 

Chap

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
213
Location
Greenville, MS
Danger with carrying condition two in my opinion

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

There is No De-cocking lever on a 1911, so after you rack a round you would need to lower the hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger. (NOT advisable)

I was trained and carried the 1911 for the Military back in the 80's. We carried in condition three.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition three is how I currently conceal carry my personal weapon, a Kimber 1911.

Two draw backs I can think of with Condition 3 being able to reach Condition 0:

1) After you break leather, it (normally) takes two hands to rack a round. This puts the gun in
Condition 0 - Cocked, Un-locked and Ready to rock. (Condition 1 just thumb off safety)

2) It also makes noise which will draw attention your direction. (Condition 1 no noise until you pull trigger)

All things I'm willing to accept, That being said I have NO problem with Condition one carry either since I trust the safeties built into the 1911. It has a very long history of no unintentional discharges.

I believe Condition 1 or 3 should be the only real choices you should consider.

Chap

Welcome to the wonderful world of 1911's. :banana: :monkey
 
Last edited:

phred

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
768
Location
North Central Wisconsin, ,
Some very good answers here. Whatever your choice, you must be comfortable with your decision.

Condition 2 is unsafe

Condition 3 takes more time, more movement, makes noise and assumes you have both hands free to use.

My choice is condition 1, cocked and locked, and I have no problems with it. I train that way also. I trust my life on it.
 

hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

There is No De-cocking lever on a 1911, so after you rack a round you would need to lower the hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger. (NOT advisable)

I was trained and carried the 1911 for the Military back in the 80's. We carried in condition three.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition three is how I currently conceal carry my personal weapon, a Kimber 1911.

Two draw backs I can think of with Condition 3:

1) After you break leather, it (normally) takes two hands to rack a round. This puts the gun in
Condition 0 - cocked locked and ready to rock. (Condition 1 just thumb off safety)

2) It also makes noise which will draw attention your direction. (Condition 1 no noise until you pull trigger)

All things I'm willing to accept, That being said I have NO problem with Condition one carry either since I trust the safeties built into the 1911. It has a very long history of no unintentional discharges.

I believe Condition 1 or 3 should be the only real choices you should consider.

Chap

Welcome to the wonderful world of 1911's. :banana: :monkey

I carry in Condition One. Always have. I have no problem with Condition Three or Israeli carry either but for me it is slower and requires dexterity that might not be there for me in a stress fire situation.

Cocked, locked, ready to rock. That works for me.

As for lowering the hammer on a live round in a 1911, I don't recommend it. I choose to drop the mag and rack the slide, clearing the chamber. No reason to lower the hammer on a live round. If the safety is off and rounds are still in the gun, I would just snick the safety back on and holster.

'Hammer down on a live round' carry in a 1911 is an accident waiting to happen. Drop the gun, just the inertia of the firing pin may set off the round. Further, if you attempt to cock the gun and your thumb slips, bang. JMHO

Hardballer out!
 

1FASTC4

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
505
Location
Tomahawk
Condition 1 for my kimber 1911. I wouldn't carry condition 2... too much chance of a ND. Condition 3 doesnt seem like a good choice because you are adding steps to the process of actually getting a round off. Experts say that fine motor skills are greatly effected under extreme duress. I prefer my firing motion/action to be as simplistic as possible. YMMV
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
John Moses Browning designed the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked. Nuff said?

This is only partially true. Originally, condition 1 carry was not intended, as evidenced by the lack of thumb safety on the 1910 prototype (many people erroneously claim it was the grip safety initially lacking). Furthermore, the existence of grip serrations on the hammer spur -- and the length of that spur, especially on the M1911 (pre-A1) -- suggests that condition 2 carry was intended. It wasn't until the cavalry reasonably pointed out that they needed a one-handed way to safely holster the weapon while riding that the thumb safety was added. However, even for the cavalry, condition 1 carry was a matter of expediency, but was apparently not the primary, day-to-day mode of carry.

I have posted extensively on this issue in the past:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-action-1911&p=1142629&viewfull=1#post1142629

It's accurate to say that the pistol was designed to allow condition 1 carry, but then it was also designed to allow condition 2 and 3. And furthermore, whichever of these was, by design, intended to be the primary mode, it was almost certainly not condition 1.

With all that said, I carry condition 1, and tend to share the reasoning as to why condition 2 is the least safe.
 
Last edited:

Max

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
335
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Thanks all

Thanks everybody for educating me. I did not understand the mechanics of the 1911 as I have never handled one but after the info you all gave me I can see how condition two is not a good idea. Thanks again all. It seems everyone and their brother are making entry level 1911s now. It is nice to have such a wide selection.
 
M

McX

Guest
i need a 1911, i follow around open carriers at the meets, but they're wise to me, and those damn retention holsters keep me from ever realy getting my hands on one. i feel so discriminated against. i am not a member of club .45!
 

Mlutz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
758
Location
, ,
i need a 1911, i follow around open carriers at the meets, but they're wise to me, and those damn retention holsters keep me from ever realy getting my hands on one. i feel so discriminated against. i am not a member of club .45!

Our holsters will fit the "big brother". Same firearm, just not the same size hole. ;) Lol.
 

Krusty

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
281
Location
Trempealeau County, Wisconsin
i need a 1911, i follow around open carriers at the meets, but they're wise to me, and those damn retention holsters keep me from ever realy getting my hands on one. i feel so discriminated against. i am not a member of club .45!

GOOD NEWS MCX! Club .45 has now extended its membership to "other than 1911" .45 autos! It's not too late, sign up today!! Even a nice .45 revolver will get you into the club! haha :lol:
 

comp45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
383
Location
Watertown, WI, ,
I carry Condition 1 at all times. I am aware that the military for most of their history with the 1911 had people carry it in Condition 3. Then again, carrying in the military is a little different situation than carrying on the street. My father carried a 1911 as a crew member on a B-24 and always carried Condition 1.

As to Condition 2, the "half cock safety" really isn't a safety in that sense of the word. It is meant to catch the hammer in the event that the sear fails to engage the full cock notch on the hammer.

IMHO, when correctly operated, the 1911 is the safest handgun out there.
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
775
Location
, ,
My $0.02. It's much more natural to push down the safety with your thumb, as you draw the 1911, than it is to cock the hammer. I find it much faster and easier.
 

swfaninwi

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Wisconsin
Carrying in condition 2 is the same as carrying a level action rifle with the hammer all the way forward on a loaded chamber. As was stated, there is a possibly that the hammer may get hit from behind or the gun dropped muzzle down and inertia will cause the firing pin to go forward into the primer.

If a cocked 1911 looks dangerous just remember that most long guns are cocked but you don’t see the hammer (out of sight, out of mind I guess). The 1911 has the additional grip safety which blocks the sear unless the grip is firmly grasped. Some models like the Colt series 80 have a firing pin block (a small pin that fits in a grove in the firing pin) that can only be moved when the trigger is pressed. Kimber and some S&W also have a similar safety but it is controlled by the grip safety (called a Schwartz safety). While an added level of protection, the firing pin block is not a substitute for poor muzzle and trigger discipline. Most long guns do not have a firing pin block, but a sear safety controlled by the button safety. Companies like Springfield Armory and certain S&W models use a titanium (read: supper lightweight) firing pin that will not develop the inertia to fire the shell.

Decent animations
http://www.m1911.org/1911desc.htm
 
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