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Thread: OT- Violent Arrest Last Week

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    OT- Violent Arrest Last Week

    I just saw the article in today's Seattle Times about the violent arrest of a man who wandered into traffic in Seattle. Apparently this took place some time last week. He was punched in the face, 2 or 3 times by an SPD LEO AFTER the man was handcuffed and on the ground. The man spit on the officer and the citizen witness said the officer then punched him hard in the face. The man was not resisting or fighting the officers. The witness said he was old. An internal investigation has been started.

    This just made me soooooooo mad!! So the guy spit on him. That to me is not enough reason to violently punch someone who is on the ground, cuffed and defenseless. I wonder if the LEO really felt like a man doing that?!? If he has no better self control than that, he shouldn't be a LEO, not just for SPD, but anywhere! He should lose his job and be charged with assault and jailed. Didn't they stop for a minute and think that maybe this man was confused? The witness (and thank God there was one) said he was old, who knows what his state of mind was. Apparently, he crossed the street against the light. What is with SPD and this big hoop de do about jaywalking or walking against the light?!? Why don't they go find some real criminals instead of beating up old men who haven't done much of anything?!? The witness just happened to be a free lance radio reporter, who called her boyfriend, a KIRO radio talk show host. Sorry I am not good with links; it was in today's paper so it will be on their website. I am beginning to see why some here have a negative attitude towards LEOs. To top it off, when the sargent arrived, he tried to deny that it even happened!!! I hope the poor guy got some medical attention for his face. What a coward, to hit someone like that who is restrained and absolutely no threat.

    I would like to hear what the rest of you think.
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    Was this an elderperson with dementia or Alzheimers or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Was this an elderperson with dementia or Alzheimers or something?
    That hasn't been determined. The witness in the article just said that he appeared to be an old man. I think it's a possibility. Regardless, the LEO's actions are reprehensible.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This cries for a link, addition information.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Just a thought...

    If the man that was handcuffed, knowingly has HIV, and spit, couldnt that be construed as attempted murder?

    I think that if you are handcuffed it seems sensless to provoke the LEO. Just like if you run from the police after being told "stop or I'll shoot". The LEO shouldnt have to give empty threats. He should be able to shoot.

    Now if you stop, put your hands in the air and comply, no physical violence is called for, and LEO should be punished if they escalate a situation that is under control and you are not resisting in any way.

    JMO...

    the officers in Ocean Shores, that I knew, were very calm, and in no way demeaning. They gave the exact amount of respect that they got. Maybe theres a difference between some who are LEO for a job, and some who take the job for the power trip.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This cries for a link, addition information.
    I don't know how to post a link, unfortunately, but it was in today's Seattle Times. I think if you go to Seattle Times.com, you can find it; if someone wants to post it, that's fine with me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Just a thought...

    If the man that was handcuffed, knowingly has HIV, and spit, couldnt that be construed as attempted murder?

    I think that if you are handcuffed it seems sensless to provoke the LEO. Just like if you run from the police after being told "stop or I'll shoot". The LEO shouldnt have to give empty threats. He should be able to shoot.

    Now if you stop, put your hands in the air and comply, no physical violence is called for, and LEO should be punished if they escalate a situation that is under control and you are not resisting in any way.

    JMO...

    the officers in Ocean Shores, that I knew, were very calm, and in no way demeaning. They gave the exact amount of respect that they got. Maybe theres a difference between some who are LEO for a job, and some who take the job for the power trip.
    I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.
    I may be wrong too, I just know I wouldnt want to chance it.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    Does it really matter? A LEO has no business punching a handcuffed man. Old or young.
    It would make it even worse.

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    There's a new article about the incident at Seattle Times.com. I would post it if I knew how. It's about halfway down. It gives a different slant on this incident. The man is mentally ill and he has been charged.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This cries for a link, addition information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I don't know how to post a link, unfortunately, but it was in today's Seattle Times. I think if you go to Seattle Times.com, you can find it; if someone wants to post it, that's fine with me.
    I have searched the Times archives and find nothing close with the info available.

    Posting a link is simple as ABC: Highlight the address bar at the top, hold Control key down and hit the "C" key; go to the page on which you wish to post, control key + "V" and Walla!! You've just posted a link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    OK we got a link now - little bit different perspective - will have to wait and see how this plays out - no rush to judgement.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...by_police.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I have searched the Times archives and find nothing close with the info available.

    Posting a link is simple as ABC: Highlight the address bar at the top, hold Control key down and hit the "C" key; go to the page on which you wish to post, control key + "V" and Walla!! You've just posted a link.
    I tried that and when I tried to highlight the article, it highlighted everything. You won't find it in the Archives. Go to Seattle Times.com. the first entry; click on Local News and scan down about halfway. Gotta learn to do a link!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

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    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...by_police.html

    It's just a matter of copying the website URL in your browser, then pasting it in your response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    OK we got a link now - little bit different perspective - will have to wait and see how this plays out - no rush to judgement.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...by_police.html
    Thanks. Yes, different perspective from the newspaper article this morning. Regardless, I don't think he should have been punched.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.
    The officer had no business punching the man, even if he was spat on. Punching someone is assault. You could see how it would piss a person off being spat on in the face, but still, spitting would not constitute a response where you would punch the person in the face, while they are handcuffed (already detained). As for the head cover they put on him, yes, they should be retrained and stopped from exposing anyone else to their bad habit.

    Unless the spitter had blood in their mouth and spat into the eyes of the person or onto an open wound, HIV/AIDS is highly unlikely; even then it is hard to contract. You need a certain amount of HIV/AIDS, i.e. infected blood to infect a person.

    That being said, herpes, gonorrhea, HEP, chlamydia, all of those can be transmitted into the mouth and eyes of the receiver of the spit. Spit is dangerous, and spitting into someones face is assault.

    I have had a random person spit into my face, and it is not pleasant. The LEO is lucky, he has at his disposal the ability to check and make sure he was not exposed to anything. At a civilian, you will not know whether or not you were exposed, because getting blood work from the spitter is pretty much impossible, so count on months of waiting, and blood testing. After I was spat on, I pretty much avoided most contact with my wife for a while, until I could establish that I was not infected with the four main ones I listed above.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-20-2011 at 01:05 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Thanks. Yes, different perspective from the newspaper article this morning. Regardless, I don't think he should have been punched.
    Just to add, while I don't think he should have been punched like that, I guess my next question is, what is he doing on the street? Being mentally ill is not a crime, but attempted murder in Cali, and felony assault in Oregon?!? How many more assaults until he does kill someone? Our legal system has the opportunity at this moment to prevent a future crime. This man sounds like he is criminally insane.
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    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    The officer had no business punching the man, even if he was spat on. Punching someone is assault. You could see how it would piss a person off being spat on in the face, but still, punching would not constitute a response where you would punch the person in the face, while they are handcuffed (already detained). As for the head cover they put on him, yes, they should be retrained and stopped from exposing anyone else to their bad habit.

    Unless the spitter had blood in their mouth and spat into the eyes of the person or onto an open wound, HIV/AIDS is highly unlikely; even then it is hard to contract. You need a certain amount of HIV/AIDS, i.e. infected blood to infect a person.

    That being said, herpes, gonorrhea, HEP, chlamydia, all of those can be transmitted into the mouth and eyes of the receiver of the spit. Spit is dangerous, and spitting into someones face is assault.

    I have had a random person spit into my face, and it is not pleasant. The LEO is lucky, he has at his disposal the ability to check and make sure he was not exposed to anything. At a civilian, you will not know whether or not you were exposed, because getting blood work from the spitter is pretty much impossible, so count on months of waiting, and blood testing. After I was spat on, I pretty much avoided most contact with my wife for a while, until I could establish that I was not infected with the four main ones I listed above.

    Thank you for that information, I was not aware of that at all.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    I have had a shoplifter in custody. Down on the ground with 3 other employees subduing the man while I put cuffs on him. He spat in my face. I did not punch the individual. However, I may not as been as careful in tightening the cuffs. Emotions will get the best of anyone, training or not.

    For an officer, who as undergone training, a punch would not be appropriate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Just to add, while I don't think he should have been punched like that, I guess my next question is, what is he doing on the street? Being mentally ill is not a crime, but attempted murder in Cali, and felony assault in Oregon?!? How many more assaults until he does kill someone? Our legal system has the opportunity at this moment to prevent a future crime. This man sounds like he is criminally insane.
    Yes, this man is probably insane. Where are you going to put him? All of those services they had years ago for people who are insane have been wiped out...so these people are sent onto the streets, and if they do lash out, sent to jail or prison. There are some real nutjobs on the streets these days, some of which could actually be pretty down to Earth with the right medication, treatment, housing, and job placement. I know this, because I have seen it. My sister works will people who are severely ill, but when they are receiving the proper treatment, and are given a task to do, they are pretty damn productive. Money, where is the money???
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Thank you for that information, I was not aware of that at all.

    Concentration wise, I would be more worried about HEP than HIV/AIDS. There are much higher levels of HEP in blood than HIV, FWIU.

    You definitely do not want any STD in your eyes. I worked with a man who picked up what was surely a beautiful woman one night at a bar, he was drunk, and well, nature took its course, a few days later he came into work, and his eyes were all puffed and gross. Apparently he had taken a little present home with him that evening he spent with his temporary lady-friend. Gonorrhea is what he had contracted in his eyes.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I have had a shoplifter in custody. Down on the ground with 3 other employees subduing the man while I put cuffs on him. He spat in my face. I did not punch the individual. However, I may not as been as careful in tightening the cuffs. Emotions will get the best of anyone, training or not.

    For an officer, who as undergone training, a punch would not be appropriate.
    I'm sure in the moment it is hard to keep yourself together when someone is being a complete POS like that. You handled yourself well
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Yes, this man is probably insane. Where are you going to put him? All of those services they had years ago for people who are insane have been wiped out...so these people are sent onto the streets, and if they do lash out, sent to jail or prison. There are some real nutjobs on the streets these days, some of which could actually be pretty down to Earth with the right medication, treatment, housing, and job placement. I know this, because I have seen it. My sister works will people who are severely ill, but when they are receiving the proper treatment, and are given a task to do, they are pretty damn productive. Money, where is the money???
    So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!? Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm sure in the moment it is hard to keep yourself together when someone is being a complete POS like that. You handled yourself well
    That is what my employees said as well.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!? Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?
    Yes, but there's no money to pay for a place to put them either.
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