OT- Violent Arrest Last Week

I just saw the article in today's Seattle Times about the violent arrest of a man who wandered into traffic in Seattle. Apparently this took place some time last week. He was punched in the face, 2 or 3 times by an SPD LEO AFTER the man was handcuffed and on the ground. The man spit on the officer and the citizen witness said the officer then punched him hard in the face. The man was not resisting or fighting the officers. The witness said he was old. An internal investigation has been started.

This just made me soooooooo mad!! So the guy spit on him. That to me is not enough reason to violently punch someone who is on the ground, cuffed and defenseless. I wonder if the LEO really felt like a man doing that?!? If he has no better self control than that, he shouldn't be a LEO, not just for SPD, but anywhere! He should lose his job and be charged with assault and jailed. Didn't they stop for a minute and think that maybe this man was confused? The witness (and thank God there was one) said he was old, who knows what his state of mind was. Apparently, he crossed the street against the light. What is with SPD and this big hoop de do about jaywalking or walking against the light?!? Why don't they go find some real criminals instead of beating up old men who haven't done much of anything?!? The witness just happened to be a free lance radio reporter, who called her boyfriend, a KIRO radio talk show host. Sorry I am not good with links; it was in today's paper so it will be on their website. I am beginning to see why some here have a negative attitude towards LEOs. To top it off, when the sargent arrived, he tried to deny that it even happened!!! I hope the poor guy got some medical attention for his face. What a coward, to hit someone like that who is restrained and absolutely no threat.

I would like to hear what the rest of you think.

Was this an elderperson with dementia or Alzheimers or something?

Citizen said:

Was this an elderperson with dementia or Alzheimers or something?

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That hasn't been determined. The witness in the article just said that he appeared to be an old man. I think it's a possibility. Regardless, the LEO's actions are reprehensible.

This cries for a link, addition information.

Just a thought...

If the man that was handcuffed, knowingly has HIV, and spit, couldnt that be construed as attempted murder?

I think that if you are handcuffed it seems sensless to provoke the LEO. Just like if you run from the police after being told "stop or I'll shoot". The LEO shouldnt have to give empty threats. He should be able to shoot.

Now if you stop, put your hands in the air and comply, no physical violence is called for, and LEO should be punished if they escalate a situation that is under control and you are not resisting in any way.

JMO...

the officers in Ocean Shores, that I knew, were very calm, and in no way demeaning. They gave the exact amount of respect that they got. Maybe theres a difference between some who are LEO for a job, and some who take the job for the power trip.

Grapeshot said:

This cries for a link, addition information.

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I don't know how to post a link, unfortunately, but it was in today's Seattle Times. I think if you go to Seattle Times.com, you can find it; if someone wants to post it, that's fine with me.

amzbrady said:

Just a thought...

If the man that was handcuffed, knowingly has HIV, and spit, couldnt that be construed as attempted murder?

I think that if you are handcuffed it seems sensless to provoke the LEO. Just like if you run from the police after being told "stop or I'll shoot". The LEO shouldnt have to give empty threats. He should be able to shoot.

Now if you stop, put your hands in the air and comply, no physical violence is called for, and LEO should be punished if they escalate a situation that is under control and you are not resisting in any way.

JMO...

the officers in Ocean Shores, that I knew, were very calm, and in no way demeaning. They gave the exact amount of respect that they got. Maybe theres a difference between some who are LEO for a job, and some who take the job for the power trip.

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I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.

Ruby said:

I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.

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I may be wrong too, I just know I wouldnt want to chance it.

sigfan said:

Does it really matter? A LEO has no business punching a handcuffed man. Old or young.

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It would make it even worse.

There's a new article about the incident at Seattle Times.com. I would post it if I knew how. It's about halfway down. It gives a different slant on this incident. The man is mentally ill and he has been charged.

Grapeshot said:

This cries for a link, addition information.

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Ruby said:

I don't know how to post a link, unfortunately, but it was in today's Seattle Times. I think if you go to Seattle Times.com, you can find it; if someone wants to post it, that's fine with me.

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I have searched the Times archives and find nothing close with the info available.

Posting a link is simple as ABC: Highlight the address bar at the top, hold Control key down and hit the "C" key; go to the page on which you wish to post, control key + "V" and Walla!! You've just posted a link.

OK we got a link now - little bit different perspective - will have to wait and see how this plays out - no rush to judgement.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013980921_man_who_was_punched_by_police.html

Grapeshot said:

I have searched the Times archives and find nothing close with the info available.

Posting a link is simple as ABC: Highlight the address bar at the top, hold Control key down and hit the "C" key; go to the page on which you wish to post, control key + "V" and Walla!! You've just posted a link.

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I tried that and when I tried to highlight the article, it highlighted everything. You won't find it in the Archives. Go to Seattle Times.com. the first entry; click on Local News and scan down about halfway. Gotta learn to do a link!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013980921_man_who_was_punched_by_police.html

It's just a matter of copying the website URL in your browser, then pasting it in your response.

Grapeshot said:

OK we got a link now - little bit different perspective - will have to wait and see how this plays out - no rush to judgement.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013980921_man_who_was_punched_by_police.html

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Thanks. Yes, different perspective from the newspaper article this morning. Regardless, I don't think he should have been punched.

Ruby said:

I was under the impression that HIV could not be spread that way, I may be wrong.

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The officer had no business punching the man, even if he was spat on. Punching someone is assault. You could see how it would piss a person off being spat on in the face, but still, spitting would not constitute a response where you would punch the person in the face, while they are handcuffed (already detained). As for the head cover they put on him, yes, they should be retrained and stopped from exposing anyone else to their bad habit.

Unless the spitter had blood in their mouth and spat into the eyes of the person or onto an open wound, HIV/AIDS is highly unlikely; even then it is hard to contract. You need a certain amount of HIV/AIDS, i.e. infected blood to infect a person.

That being said, herpes, gonorrhea, HEP, chlamydia, all of those can be transmitted into the mouth and eyes of the receiver of the spit. Spit is dangerous, and spitting into someones face is assault.

I have had a random person spit into my face, and it is not pleasant. The LEO is lucky, he has at his disposal the ability to check and make sure he was not exposed to anything. At a civilian, you will not know whether or not you were exposed, because getting blood work from the spitter is pretty much impossible, so count on months of waiting, and blood testing. After I was spat on, I pretty much avoided most contact with my wife for a while, until I could establish that I was not infected with the four main ones I listed above.

Ruby said:

Thanks. Yes, different perspective from the newspaper article this morning. Regardless, I don't think he should have been punched.

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Just to add, while I don't think he should have been punched like that, I guess my next question is, what is he doing on the street? Being mentally ill is not a crime, but attempted murder in Cali, and felony assault in Oregon?!? How many more assaults until he does kill someone? Our legal system has the opportunity at this moment to prevent a future crime. This man sounds like he is criminally insane.

Beretta92FSLady said:

The officer had no business punching the man, even if he was spat on. Punching someone is assault. You could see how it would piss a person off being spat on in the face, but still, punching would not constitute a response where you would punch the person in the face, while they are handcuffed (already detained). As for the head cover they put on him, yes, they should be retrained and stopped from exposing anyone else to their bad habit.

Unless the spitter had blood in their mouth and spat into the eyes of the person or onto an open wound, HIV/AIDS is highly unlikely; even then it is hard to contract. You need a certain amount of HIV/AIDS, i.e. infected blood to infect a person.

That being said, herpes, gonorrhea, HEP, chlamydia, all of those can be transmitted into the mouth and eyes of the receiver of the spit. Spit is dangerous, and spitting into someones face is assault.

I have had a random person spit into my face, and it is not pleasant. The LEO is lucky, he has at his disposal the ability to check and make sure he was not exposed to anything. At a civilian, you will not know whether or not you were exposed, because getting blood work from the spitter is pretty much impossible, so count on months of waiting, and blood testing. After I was spat on, I pretty much avoided most contact with my wife for a while, until I could establish that I was not infected with the four main ones I listed above.

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Thank you for that information, I was not aware of that at all.

I have had a shoplifter in custody. Down on the ground with 3 other employees subduing the man while I put cuffs on him. He spat in my face. I did not punch the individual. However, I may not as been as careful in tightening the cuffs. Emotions will get the best of anyone, training or not.

For an officer, who as undergone training, a punch would not be appropriate.

Ruby said:

Just to add, while I don't think he should have been punched like that, I guess my next question is, what is he doing on the street? Being mentally ill is not a crime, but attempted murder in Cali, and felony assault in Oregon?!? How many more assaults until he does kill someone? Our legal system has the opportunity at this moment to prevent a future crime. This man sounds like he is criminally insane.

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Yes, this man is probably insane. Where are you going to put him? All of those services they had years ago for people who are insane have been wiped out...so these people are sent onto the streets, and if they do lash out, sent to jail or prison. There are some real nutjobs on the streets these days, some of which could actually be pretty down to Earth with the right medication, treatment, housing, and job placement. I know this, because I have seen it. My sister works will people who are severely ill, but when they are receiving the proper treatment, and are given a task to do, they are pretty damn productive. Money, where is the money???