Victorville Sheriff/Police Seized my Firearm! Help!

steele · Jan 20, 2011

I had my gun unconstitutionally seized....I mean, put in safe keeping...by Victorville PD. It is being held at San Bernadino Co. Sheriff - Victorville Station (760)241-3240. Please call and demand they give me my firearm back. Today it is me; if not stopped, tomorrow it could be you.

A false emergency domestic 911 call had been made. Even though there was not even a reasonable suspicion a crime had actually had been committed, they charged me with "obstruction" and took my firearm after repeated protests and invoking my constitutional rights. NOTE: the firearm was not on my person, but stored in my room; and I had not touched it the entire day.

Despite these protests, they assured me it would be returned the following day. Now they are pressuring me to submit to a DOJ screening, taking 4-6 weeks, to determine my eligibility... They claim P.C. 12021.3, "any person who claims title to any firearm that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and who wishes to have the firearm returned to them must make application for a determination by the DOJ as to whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm. The form claims they may destroy the firearm, if application is denied or not approved within six months.

So far, all I've done is file a complaint, claiming my 2nd, 4th, and 5th. Anyone want a stab at this?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty??

Previous comments on FB:
It is a simple snub nose revolver, Ruger LCR. I purchased it at a dealer in CA less than two years ago: paid my background check fees and everything. You would think being a U.S. citizen, or simply a human being, would be enough...
They did ask me if I was lying about my birthdate, which I wasn't. When I queried them why, they told me my "gun registration" record wasn't coming up. Funny, I didn't think Americans had "gun registrations"...

steele · Jan 20, 2011

Am I reading CA P.C. 487 (b)(2) right? Even though its value may not necessarily exceed $950, stealing any firearm is considered Grand Theft?

----------------

Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:
(a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
of a value exceeding nine hundred fifty dollars ($950), except as
provided in subdivision (b).
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), grand theft is committed in
any of the following cases:
(1) (A) When domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous
fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm
crops are taken of a value exceeding two hundred fifty dollars
($250).
(B) For the purposes of establishing that the value of domestic
fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous fruits, other fruits,
vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm crops under this
paragraph exceeds two hundred fifty dollars ($250), that value may be
shown by the presentation of credible evidence which establishes
that on the day of the theft domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus
or deciduous fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or
other farm crops of the same variety and weight exceeded two hundred
fifty dollars ($250) in wholesale value.
(2) When fish, shellfish, mollusks, crustaceans, kelp, algae, or
other aquacultural products are taken from a commercial or research
operation which is producing that product, of a value exceeding two
hundred fifty dollars ($250).
(3) Where the money, labor, or real or personal property is taken
by a servant, agent, or employee from his or her principal or
employer and aggregates nine hundred fifty dollars ($950) or more in
any 12 consecutive month period.
(c) When the property is taken from the person of another.
(d) When the property taken is any of the following:
(1) An automobile, horse, mare, gelding, any bovine animal, any
caprine animal, mule, jack, jenny, sheep, lamb, hog, sow, boar, gilt,
barrow, or pig.
(2) A firearm.

Robin47 · Jan 20, 2011

steele said:
Am I reading CA P.C. 487 (b)(2) right? Even though its value may not necessarily exceed $950, stealing any firearm is considered Grand Theft?

----------------

Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:
(a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
of a value exceeding nine hundred fifty dollars ($950), except as
provided in subdivision (b).
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), grand theft is committed in
any of the following cases:
(1) (A) When domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous
fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm
crops are taken of a value exceeding two hundred fifty dollars
($250).
(B) For the purposes of establishing that the value of domestic
fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous fruits, other fruits,
vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm crops under this
paragraph exceeds two hundred fifty dollars ($250), that value may be
shown by the presentation of credible evidence which establishes
that on the day of the theft domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus
or deciduous fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or
other farm crops of the same variety and weight exceeded two hundred
fifty dollars ($250) in wholesale value.
(2) When fish, shellfish, mollusks, crustaceans, kelp, algae, or
other aquacultural products are taken from a commercial or research
operation which is producing that product, of a value exceeding two
hundred fifty dollars ($250).
(3) Where the money, labor, or real or personal property is taken
by a servant, agent, or employee from his or her principal or
employer and aggregates nine hundred fifty dollars ($950) or more in
any 12 consecutive month period.
(c) When the property is taken from the person of another.
(d) When the property taken is any of the following:
(1) An automobile, horse, mare, gelding, any bovine animal, any
caprine animal, mule, jack, jenny, sheep, lamb, hog, sow, boar, gilt,
barrow, or pig.
(2) A firearm.

We need more facts, was it a wrong address ? or a false call to your house ?
Who made this call ?

Robin47

Northerner · Jan 20, 2011

Buy another firearm (barring you don't need a purchase permit by local LEO). If you pass the NICS check for purchase, than DOJ must be okay with you owning a firearm. Assuming also you can afford it.

slowfiveoh · Jan 20, 2011

To the OP, we need more details.

Was this domestic call originating from your house, or anothers?
Was this domestic call placed possibly due to some sort of altercation at your residence?

steele · Jan 20, 2011

It was a false 911 emergency call, originating from my home. There is an active investigation in progress to determine what charges will be pressed against caller. The call was to the effect, to the best I can gather, 'man with gun terrorizing family member'. The charge was completely inflammatory, with intent to harass: the gun remained holstered in room entire day and there is video proof that no one had ever been threatened, not even a little bit.

They barged down the door with guns drawn while I was politely talking to them through the screen door, clearly unarmed. After an hour of interrogation handcuffed, they charged me with a misdemeanor "Obstruction of Justice"...don't ask me for what, I don't know. While handcuffed they went through the home and collected (nearly) all firearms in home. I clearly warned them not to seize my firearm and that I considered it theft. I even requested other Officers present to stop any other Officer who tried to 'seize' my firearm. They claimed they were holding it in "Safe Keeping". After 12 hours of "processing" in jail I was released.

It was a bad day, resources were wasted - but no had been hurt or charged with a gun related crime. Now, I am defenseless and a victim, of what I consider to be possible Grand Theft [CA P.C 487(b)(2)].

Any help?

steele · Jan 20, 2011

Northerner said:
Buy another firearm (barring you don't need a purchase permit by local LEO). If you pass the NICS check for purchase, than DOJ must be okay with you owning a firearm. Assuming also you can afford it.

Man: I am broke!

mjones · Jan 20, 2011

Regardless of how LEOs came to be in custody of a firearm - in order to get it back you are stuck by CA PC

12021.3. (a) (1) Any person who claims title to any firearm that is
in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and
who wishes to have the firearm returned to him or her shall make
application for a determination by the Department of Justice as to
whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm. The application
shall include the following:
...
(b) No law enforcement agency or court that has taken custody of
any firearm may return the firearm to any individual unless the
following requirements are satisfied:
(1) That individual presents to the agency or court notification
of a determination by the department pursuant to subdivision (e) that
the person is eligible to possess firearms.
(2) If the agency or court has direct access to the Automated
Firearms System, the agency or court has verified that the firearm is
not listed as stolen pursuant to Section 11108, and that the firearm
has been recorded in the Automated Firearms System in the name of
the individual who seeks its return.

The system inplace to satisfy this is known as LEGR. Here is a link to the CA DoJ form: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf

ryanburbridge · Jan 20, 2011

Call a lawyer NOW! Try

Jason A. Davis
DAVIS & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys at Law
27281 Las Ramblas, Suite 200
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
T: (949) 436-4867

F: (949) 288-6894
Website: www.CalGunLawyers.com
& www.GunRightsApp.com

I would Not discuss or add more detail online! You need a REAL lawyer. Good luck and let us know what happens AFTER your done!

steele · Jan 20, 2011

mjones said:
Regardless of how LEOs came to be in custody of a firearm - in order to get it back you are stuck by CA PC

12021.3. (a) (1) Any person who claims title to any firearm that is
in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and
who wishes to have the firearm returned to him or her shall make
application for a determination by the Department of Justice as to
whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm. The application
shall include the following:
...
(b) No law enforcement agency or court that has taken custody of
any firearm may return the firearm to any individual unless the
following requirements are satisfied:
(1) That individual presents to the agency or court notification
of a determination by the department pursuant to subdivision (e) that
the person is eligible to possess firearms.
(2) If the agency or court has direct access to the Automated
Firearms System, the agency or court has verified that the firearm is
not listed as stolen pursuant to Section 11108, and that the firearm
has been recorded in the Automated Firearms System in the name of
the individual who seeks its return.

The system inplace to satisfy this is known as LEGR. Here is a link to the CA DoJ form: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf

You are absolutely correct regarding California 'law'. I have been given these forms already. They may also have CA law that permits them to take a firearm when someone's safety may be of concern (statute?). With this said, I have serious problems with the circumstances and the validity of the law, with regard to the constitution and American's god given rights:
1) Isn't it true that no statute can violate either the U.S. Constitution or the California constitution (which these do)
2) Doesn't the 2nd Amendment guarantee "no infringement of the right to bear arms"?
3) Doesn't the 4th Amendment guarantee "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and SEIZURES"
4) Doesn't the 5th Amendment guarantee that "no person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or PROPERTY without due process of law"?
5) Doesn't the California Constitution in Article 1 guarantee the right to "self defense"
6) Would this be a form of double jeopardy, having to pass a background check a second time?

bigtoe416 · Jan 20, 2011

If you were charged with a crime you should have been given a public defender. You should probably be talking to him/her about your case rather than discussing it on a public forum.

demnogis · Jan 20, 2011

ryanburbridge said:
Call a lawyer NOW! Try
Jason A. Davis
DAVIS & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys at Law
27281 Las Ramblas, Suite 200
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
T: (949) 436-4867

F: (949) 288-6894
Website: www.CalGunLawyers.com
& www.GunRightsApp.com

Quoted for emphasis...

OCDO is not necessarily a legal resource for accomplishing these types of feats. Your best result will be garnered by CalGuns Foundation.

steele · Jan 20, 2011

Yes. A lawyer is a good idea. My finances are hurting right now, so I was hoping to generate some interest from a lawyer who might be looking for a case like this, pro bono. The best way to challenge unconstitutional laws is when someone has been legitimately victimized by of them.

I'll check into those leads.

Thanks!

steele · Jan 20, 2011

bigtoe416 said:
If you were charged with a crime you should have been given a public defender. You should probably be talking to him/her about your case rather than discussing it on a public forum.

Yes, I have to do that TOO. Although the misdemeanor I was charged with "Obstruction of Justice", has absolutely nothing to do with my firearm being seized. So I don't think I will get any help from my PD.

Thanks for the thought!

demnogis · Jan 20, 2011

DO NOT HESITATE to contact CGF. They have literally had bogus charges dropped and/or firearms returned in nil time. A lot of those guys do work for pennies on the dollar.

steele · Jan 20, 2011

demnogis said:
DO NOT HESITATE to contact CGF. They have literally had bogus charges dropped and/or firearms returned in nil time. A lot of those guys do work for pennies on the dollar.

Just e-mailed them! Thanks for the reminder, as it had slipped through the cracks.

MikeJ · Jan 20, 2011

Sounds like your department decided there was enough to warrant the seizure of your weapon. This can be done with DV incidents and 5150's. You didn't go much into the incident which is your choice. Show my 50 criminals and I'll show your at least 49 who say they aren't guilty. Sometimes you get that one who will admit it.

CenTex · Jan 21, 2011

MikeJ said:
Sounds like your department decided there was enough to warrant the seizure of your weapon. This can be done with DV incidents and 5150's. You didn't go much into the incident which is your choice. Show my 50 criminals and I'll show your at least 49 who say they aren't guilty. Sometimes you get that one who will admit it.

Are you a troll?

Meg Ryan: "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I'm not like that."

steele · Jan 21, 2011

MikeJ said:
Sounds like your department decided there was enough to warrant the seizure of your weapon. This can be done with DV incidents and 5150's. You didn't go much into the incident which is your choice. Show my 50 criminals and I'll show your at least 49 who say they aren't guilty. Sometimes you get that one who will admit it.

They took almost all firearms (3 total) in home, of which only one was mine. Again, this is not a question of what "laws" were used to justify the seizure. This strikes to the very heart of what it means to be an American and the rights that are preserved in the Constitution, the "Supreme Law of the Land."

Hitler and his posse passed all the laws they needed to justify what they were doing - but that doesn't mean it was right. They ultimately paid for their war crimes, with their lives, law or no law. Right now our government is waging war on us. This must not stand!

MikeJ · Jan 21, 2011

steele said:
They took almost all firearms (3 total) in home, of which only one was mine. Again, this is not a question of what "laws" were used to justify the seizure. This strikes to the very heart of what it means to be an American and the rights that are preserved in the Constitution, the "Supreme Law of the Land."

Hitler and his posse passed all the laws they needed to justify what they were doing - but that doesn't mean it was right. They ultimately paid for their war crimes, with their lives, law or no law. Right now our government is waging war on us. This must not stand!

Almost all of your constitutional rights can be taken away for some reason. If you commit a crime your arrested. Your not free to go where you want and at whatever time. Property can be taken away. If your convicted of a felony or a DV related crime you can and most likely lose your right to firearms. How about the right to vote?
Things have and will be restricted.

Your freedom of speech can be restricted during times of war. You can't say anything you want at anytime. If you threaten someone it could be a crime like 422 PC (Criminal/terrorist threats).

Your 4th amendment rights can be given up if you want parole or probation. Police can search on probable cause and enter on exigent circumstances and warrants. There are a lot of rights people think override everything where in certain circumstances and be taken away.

Sorry your stuff got taken but the thought behind it was to keep you, your wife/gf and possibly your family alive.

Victorville Sheriff/Police Seized my Firearm! Help!

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