Victorville Sheriff/Police Seized my Firearm! Help!

CenTex said:

Are you a troll?

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No, someone who has a degree in administration of justice, and has many guns. I'm all about rights and freedoms but I try to take a real look at laws, rights and society and balance them out. I'm not looking to the extreme. I carry a gun everyday.

MikeJ said:

Almost all of your constitutional rights can be taken away for some reason. If you commit a crime your arrested. Your not free to go where you want and at whatever time. Property can be taken away. If your convicted of a felony or a DV related crime you can and most likely lose your right to firearms. How about the right to vote?
Things have and will be restricted.

Your freedom of speech can be restricted during times of war. You can't say anything you want at anytime. If you threaten someone it could be a crime like 422 PC (Criminal/terrorist threats).

Your 4th amendment rights can be given up if you want parole or probation. Police can search on probable cause and enter on exigent circumstances and warrants. There are a lot of rights people think override everything where in certain circumstances and be taken away.

Sorry your stuff got taken but the thought behind it was to keep you, your wife/gf and possibly your family alive.

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I appreciate the consideration Mike. You are right in the fact that our rights are violated everyday; and burglars rob their victims routinely too. Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean it is right or legal. Isn't it the police' job to enforce the law...you know, the executive branch? If you want to be kept safe, and don't want to do it yourself, then there are private 'Security Guards' available.

Let's see, I was not charged with any firearm related offense - but it is somehow legal to take and keep my property/gun? How does that make any sense?

Don't forget the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land: no VALID law can contradict it; and every government employee has sworn to "uphold and defend the Constitution." If those we employ to defend our rights and freedom neglect to do so, we have no choice but to hold them accountable. The only reason we retain any of our constitutional rights, is because there are those willing to defend them.

MikeJ said:

Sorry your stuff got taken but the thought behind it was to keep you, your wife/gf and possibly your family alive.

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Hey Mike, I just thought to add...I also own a Remington 870 Super Magnum (3 1/2'') 28'' shotgun with buckshot and slugs at the ready, which just happened to be stored in another location. By the previous logic, shared by you with the police, my 'stepmom' should be in the morgue right now....but in reality she is safe and sound. Get real buddy.

Guns DONT kill people; PEOPLE kill people. A ball peen hammer can be more lethal than a gun, under the right circumstances.

steele said:

Hey Mike, I just thought to add...I also own a Remington 870 Super Magnum (3 1/2'') 28'' shotgun with buckshot and slugs at the ready, which just happened to be stored in another location. By the previous logic, shared by you with the police, my 'stepmom' should be in the morgue right now....but in reality she is safe and sound. Get real buddy.

Guns DONT kill people; PEOPLE kill people. A ball peen hammer can be more lethal than a gun, under the right circumstances.

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You can thank a guy they call O.J. for our current DV laws and practices.

steele said:

It was a false 911 emergency call, originating from my home. There is an active investigation in progress to determine what charges will be pressed against caller. The call was to the effect, to the best I can gather, 'man with gun terrorizing family member'. The charge was completely inflammatory, with intent to harass: the gun remained holstered in room entire day and there is video proof that no one had ever been threatened, not even a little bit.

They barged down the door with guns drawn while I was politely talking to them through the screen door, clearly unarmed. After an hour of interrogation handcuffed, they charged me with a misdemeanor "Obstruction of Justice"...don't ask me for what, I don't know. While handcuffed they went through the home and collected (nearly) all firearms in home. I clearly warned them not to seize my firearm and that I considered it theft. I even requested other Officers present to stop any other Officer who tried to 'seize' my firearm. They claimed they were holding it in "Safe Keeping". After 12 hours of "processing" in jail I was released.

It was a bad day, resources were wasted - but no had been hurt or charged with a gun related crime. Now, I am defenseless and a victim, of what I consider to be possible Grand Theft [CA P.C 487(b)(2)].

Any help?

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Dude, you sound like a total drama queen. I was not there, so this is just a guess, but this is probably what happened.

Someone from INSIDE your house calls 911 and complains about a "crazy man with a gun". I am willing to bet that there was some sort of DV element to the call. The police get there and you stand inside the screen door and refuse entry and complain about your "rights". The police really don't care to debate you on that and are really concerned about the safety of all inside your home. They then have to force entry to rightfully ensure everyone's safety and then you complain when they take your guns.

Get your own house in order (SOMEONE CALLED) AND then complain about the police THAT SOMEONE FROM INSIDE YOUR HOUSE CALLED.

greg36ff said:

Dude, you sound like a total drama queen. I was not there, so this is just a guess, but this is probably what happened.

Someone from INSIDE your house calls 911 and complains about a "crazy man with a gun". I am willing to bet that there was some sort of DV element to the call. The police get there and you stand inside the screen door and refuse entry and complain about your "rights". The police really don't care to debate you on that and are really concerned about the safety of all inside your home. They then have to force entry to rightfully ensure everyone's safety and then you complain when they take your guns.

Get your own house in order (SOMEONE CALLED) AND then complain about the police THAT SOMEONE FROM INSIDE YOUR HOUSE CALLED.

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Hey! I am getting real tired of jerks commenting on this post. The purpose of this post was request for HELP! I provided details, upon request. If you are going to offer some help or advice, then I would really appreciate it. Otherwise, step off.

steele said:

Hey! I am getting real tired of jerks commenting on this post. The purpose of this post was request for HELP! I provided details, upon request. If you are going to offer some help or advice, then I would really appreciate it. Otherwise, step off.

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Hey, when you post something, you get what you get. You don't get to make the rules.

Having said that, you are perfectly free to ignore me or to tell me to go %$#@ myself. My opinion has not always been real popular here in the past when I post so i am used to it.

I am not really a jerk,,,(well sometimes..). I am just someone with a different point of view. I was possibly a little harsh, but at least try to see things from the LEO’s point of view. A “crazyman with a gun” call from a 911 line inside your residence, a guy at the door when you get there, probably not real cooperative, circumstances not real clear even after talking to everyone; the law allows me to take guns, so I do.

I mean really; you get the “crazy guy with a gun call” and when you get there, everyone says all is fine. Obviously everything WAS NOT FINE, so what you gonna do. I’m gonna cover my ass and do my best to make sure nothing terrible happens after I leave. Is everyone gonna like my solution; no, but I tried.
I wish you all the best and I do hope EVERYTHING works out for you; including getting your guns back.

greg36ff said:

Hey, when you post something, you get what you get. You don't get to make the rules.

Having said that, you are perfectly free to ignore me or to tell me to go %$#@ myself. My opinion has not always been real popular here in the past when I post so i am used to it.

I am not really a jerk,,,(well sometimes..). I am just someone with a different point of view. I was possibly a little harsh, but at least try to see things from the LEO’s point of view. A “crazyman with a gun” call from a 911 line inside your residence, a guy at the door when you get there, probably not real cooperative, circumstances not real clear even after talking to everyone; the law allows me to take guns, so I do.

I mean really; you get the “crazy guy with a gun call” and when you get there, everyone says all is fine. Obviously everything WAS NOT FINE, so what you gonna do. I’m gonna cover my ass and do my best to make sure nothing terrible happens after I leave. Is everyone gonna like my solution; no, but I tried.
I wish you all the best and I do hope EVERYTHING works out for you; including getting your guns back.

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Thanks for the conciliatory post. It is helpful to understand how LEOs think; but what's done is done. When "helping me out", try not to speculate so much though. For example, you probably didn't know, nor the officers knew, the 911 caller was in possession of a loaded .25 cal pistol, which had not been seized. I am not hiding anything, so feel free to ask for details.

Look, there has to be a line that LEOs cannot cross. The only clear one available, that is legal and valid, is the Constitution. Speaking to one of the Deputy Sheriffs they told me that they felt it was appropriate to seize a firearm anytime someone told them they felt threatened by it. How does that fit in with legal Open Carry and the 2nd Amendment? Would the same thing apply in reverse, if I told a LEO I felt threatened by their firearm?

I know it sounds harsh, but LEOs are seriously misguided if they believe it is appropriate to violate the Constitution and citizens rights to provide "safety". What does LEO stand for? "Law Enforcement" Officer; not "Security Guard" Officer. Enforcing JUST (constitutional) laws do keep the people safe, by deterring would be criminals who know their misdeeds will be punished.

Why is our economy being looted by the likes of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and the Federal Reserve right now? Because these white collar criminals know they have and can get a way with it. Crack down on fraud and our "economy" will recover. This is how our system was intended to work.

The end DOES NOT justify the means.

Steele I think you don't get law. There is the constitution of the US, Federal law, State law which states also have a constitution, county laws and city laws also called muni laws. The US is a group of "United States." Each state is really it's own government. There are a lot of laws. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to abide by. Doing that will land you in jail.

Our federal laws are the most broad so the states can decide how restrictive they want to make their local laws.

MikeJ said:

No, someone who has a degree in administration of justice, and has many guns. I'm all about rights and freedoms but I try to take a real look at laws, rights and society and balance them out. I'm not looking to the extreme. I carry a gun everyday.

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Return and see my edit.

MikeJ said:

Steele I think you don't get law. There is the constitution of the US, Federal law, State law which states also have a constitution, county laws and city laws also called muni laws. The US is a group of "United States." Each state is really it's own government. There are a lot of laws. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to abide by. Doing that will land you in jail.

Our federal laws are the most broad so the states can decide how restrictive they want to make their local laws.

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Mike: I get, how you get law. Just the same as 95+% of LEOs, lawyers, legislators, and judges. This is the PROBLEM! For education's sake, I will endure the pain to repeat myself.

There are such things as 'statutes'; and then there are laws. For a statute to become an enforceable law, it is required to be passed by a legislature: either Federal or State AND it may not conflict with either the U.S. Constitution or State Constitution.

The U.S. Constitution is the U.S. "Supreme Law of the Land" (please read Article VI). Likewise State Constitutions typically specify that no municipal law may conflict with it. It has been well accepted since our nation's inception, that any law in conflict with either Constitution can be considered "null and void", in all respects. And every LEO, lawyer, judge and legislator swears an Oath to "uphold and defend the constitution" (again Article VI) because it is required by LAW! The Constitution is the foundation of all lawful government - any sworn officer who willfully undermines the Constitution, is effectively a saboteur and traitor.

Per the 10th Amendment, the States reserved themselves all authority not enumerated in the Federal constitution, severely limiting the authority of the Federal government; while no State law may conflict with the U.S. Constitution, including the Bill of Rights since the States ratified the 14th Amendment. So you see, most Federal laws are illegitimate, "null and void", as the Federal government had not been granted the authority to enforce them by Constitutional Amendment. At the same time, the States are bound to protect the Bill of Rights and most other natural rights, by LAW.

Now let's wrap up with one final reiteration of the job title LEO - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. Any questions?

I'd like to get this post back on track with the original intent of getting my gun back!

Have you fellow OCers called the Victorville/San Bernadino Sheriff Dept. yet (Capt. Cliff Raynolds 760.241.2911)? They seem to think that if someone is simply "frightened" by the presence of a firearm (which I didn't even do) that is enough "legal" basis to seize it!!

If this is not corrected now, then don't be surprised to find your gun seized next time you Open Carry. Think about how much you would miss it, if that happened. It could and probably will, in time.

As it stands, I am looking at having to submit to their DOJ screening forms, under duress, as they have yet to respect my request for the immediate return of my firearm. There is no guarantee that they will determine I "qualify" to carry a firearm(yes, I did just say that in America), even though I bought it from a dealer in California; and they could simply destroy it. I put myself on the line by filing a complaint, but I need your support for these wrongs to be righted.

CALL: Capt. Raynolds @ (760)241-2911

Write Articles! Call the Media!

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

steele said:

I'd like to get this post back on track with the original intent of getting my gun back!

Have you fellow OCers called the Victorville/San Bernadino Sheriff Dept. yet (Capt. Cliff Raynolds 760.241.2911)? They seem to think that if someone is simply "frightened" by the presence of a firearm (which I didn't even do) that is enough "legal" basis to seize it!!

If this is not corrected now, then don't be surprised to find your gun seized next time you Open Carry. Think about how much you would miss it, if that happened. It could and probably will, in time.

As it stands, I am looking at having to submit to their DOJ screening forms, under duress, as they have yet to respect my request for the immediate return of my firearm. There is no guarantee that they will determine I "qualify" to carry a firearm(yes, I did just say that in America), even though I bought it from a dealer in California; and they could simply destroy it. I put myself on the line by filing a complaint, but I need your support for these wrongs to be righted.

CALL: Capt. Raynolds @ (760)241-2911

Write Articles! Call the Media!

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

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You've already been given the information needed to get your gun back. No amount of calling or lobbying Captain Raynolds is going to change that.

Not a single person on this forum knows the exact circumstances by which your firearm was taken into custody.

Northerner said:

Buy another firearm (barring you don't need a purchase permit by local LEO). If you pass the NICS check for purchase, than DOJ must be okay with you owning a firearm. Assuming also you can afford it.

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I ended up taking your approach, by drawing the belt in another notch. Boy, I must really be disillusioned to stay with the U.S. to the very bitter end...

mjones said:

You've already been given the information needed to get your gun back. No amount of calling or lobbying Captain Raynolds is going to change that.

Not a single person on this forum knows the exact circumstances by which your firearm was taken into custody.

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All you need to know is that a firearm/property was seized, with no trial, no jury, no verdict, nothing. If you don't believe me, just ask when you call; they'll tell you that this is true. This is not Mexico or Nicaragua - this is the United States of America!! Joe Zamudio said it, "the right to own [bear] a gun is not an option!"

C'mon folks, put some heat on 'em. We are the majority, they are the minority. Let's make this a win; not another loss. Are we going to let the few incrementally slaughter our rights, until everyone is disarmed? The first thing you've got to do is GET MAD!

CALL: Capt. Raynolds @ (760)241-2911

By the way, I spoke to CalGun lawyers and they told me that they are already in the process of contesting this type of unconstitutional gun seizure, in court. In the meantime, we've got to put pressure on the executive branch (LEOs) to also uphold their Oath to defend the constitution, in order to limit casualties. You know what to do!

steele said:

By the way, I spoke to CalGun lawyers and they told me that they are already in the process of contesting this type of unconstitutional gun seizure, in court. In the meantime, we've got to put pressure on the executive branch (LEOs) to also uphold their Oath to defend the constitution, in order to limit casualties. You know what to do!

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So ... who was the person that felt threatened.. do they qualify under 12028pc? Did they take the gun under those circumstances? or is it under 8100 W&I

ConsideringOC said:

So ... who was the person that felt threatened.. do they qualify under 12028pc? Did they take the gun under those circumstances? or is it under 8100 W&I

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Thanks for inquiring. You will see that both your questions have been answered in previous post, in this thread. To be frank, I can't even remember, or care to remember, which 'statute' was used as legal cover for the seizure. All there is needed to know is, in the United States, the right to private property and to bear arms are legally protected RIGHTS, not privileges.

I ask you, do you want to live in a free and prosperous United States, where you can Open Carry? If so, it is time to stand up and sound off!

THANK YOU.

CenTex said:

Are you a troll?

Meg Ryan: "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I'm not like that."

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@CenTex: Call it like you see it. A troll is a troll. No offense meant, but I've seen posts everywhere that are divisive, authoritarian and in one case bordering on entrapment. You've got to call folks like that out, or they will cause further problems down the road.

Is MikeJ also MJones? Are you a relative of Scott Jones (Sacramento County Sheriff)?

Where is all the support folks? You can't let a regular OCer go down in flames people. If you let one of your own fail, you are laying the foundation for failure of Open Carry. I don't know how comfortable I would feel OCing from here on out, without knowing OC'ers will support each other when their down. We've got the equivalent of a football team (this thread has over 600 views), with one person to get through for a touchdown. Let's make that run!

Call Capt. Raynolds today and politely ask him why his Department seized my gun; and to return it to me immediately (760)241-2911. Don't forget to mention a U.S. Citizen's legally protected rights

THANKS.