open carry in arnold. i called the police department.

Josh Carne · Jan 20, 2011

My name is josh i am 22 years old and i open carried for my first time today. Like everyone, on here i wanted to know the laws and how the leo's would react about oc. I called the police department and the officer that helped me was very friendly and honest. I asked him about the legality of carrying openly in the arnold city limits. He explained to me that it is not illegal and HE had no problem with it. He informed me that if someone called in and complained, depending on what officer showed up i could be charged with disturbing the peace.

I found this man to be very helpful. i open carried at the gas station to fuel my car up and had no funny looks at all. I will oc more often now that i know that it is legal.

N605TW · Jan 20, 2011

Welcome Josh,
I have found that most people don't notice, or don't care that your carrying. I sometimes will get odd looks but I like to think I got those kinds of looks before I started to carry :shocker:
My best advise to you, is that you look up the laws on audio and/or video recording in public. Then get a recorder and carry it all the time. It may come in handy if you are stopped by an officer that would otherwise try to charge you with a bogus crime.

cshoff · Jan 20, 2011

For the record, Josh, simply openly carrying a firearm in a jurisdiction that has no ordinance against it does NOT meet the legal requirements for peace disturbance, regardless of which officer "shows up". You would actually have to be doing something that DOES meet the legal standards of "peace disturbance" in order to be prosecuted for that crime.

patriotthad · Jan 20, 2011

Josh,
Welcome to the OC world. There are a few things to remember when OCing.
#1 Do not take the gun from it's holster for any reason other than self defense.
#2 If you are approached by police, remain as calm and cooperative as possible.
#3 If the officer does arrest you, do not resist. If you are being arrested when there is no violation of the law, contact a lawyer asap.
#4 Read Arnold's city ordinance on peace disturbance, weapons or any thing that MIGHT be used against you.

mFonz77 · Jan 21, 2011

Welcome! Glad to see someone else joining the ranks. I was born in Arnold and have family there still. Maybe I'll see you round one of these days!

Josh Carne · Jan 22, 2011

Thank you

Thank you guys. i think this forum will be very helpful to me. just knowing that i am not alone in the thought of open carrying. I also think it is sad that we as a nation have gotten so gun shy. think about it. Everyone on here talks about how scared they were to carry their first time in public. I just feel that it is a very bad thing that we have gotten afraid to exercise our 2nd amendment right to the fullest.

lancej3540 · Jan 22, 2011

Josh Carne said:
My name is josh i am 22 years old and i open carried for my first time today. Like everyone, on here i wanted to know the laws and how the leo's would react about oc. I called the police department and the officer that helped me was very friendly and honest. I asked him about the legality of carrying openly in the arnold city limits. He explained to me that it is not illegal and HE had no problem with it. He informed me that if someone called in and complained, depending on what officer showed up i could be charged with disturbing the peace.

I found this man to be very helpful. i open carried at the gas station to fuel my car up and had no funny looks at all. I will oc more often now that i know that it is legal.

Read the laws for arnold. arnold is a double edged sword with the law it's on how you read it

kylemoul · Jan 26, 2011

....having upon or about his person, concealed or exposed, any kind of firearms,..

dont know how they can enforce concealed...because they cant.

anyone have a link to arnold codes?

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 26, 2011

kylemoul said:
....having upon or about his person, concealed or exposed, any kind of firearms,..

dont know how they can enforce concealed...because they cant.

anyone have a link to arnold codes?

http://library3.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=11509&doc_action=whatsnew

enjoy your reading.

Doc

lancej3540 · Jan 26, 2011

Sec. 17-21. Dangerous and concealed weapons; prohibitions concerning.
If any person shall carry concealed upon or about his person a dangerous or deadly weapon of any kind or description, or shall go into any church or place where people have assembled for religious worship, or into any schoolroom or place where people are assembled for educational, political, literary or social purposes, or to any election precinct on any election day, or into any courtroom during the sitting of court, or into any other public assemblage of persons met for any lawful purpose other than for militia drill, or meetings called under militia law of this state, having upon or about his person, concealed or exposed, any kind of firearms, bowie knife, springback knife, razor, metal knucks, billy, sword cane, dirk, dagger, slingshot or other similar deadly weapons or shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit any such weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner, or shall have any such weapon in his possession when intoxicated, or directly or indirectly, sell or deliver, loan or barter to any minor any such weapon, without the consent of the parent or guardian of such minor, he shall, upon conviction, be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor; but nothing contained in this section shall apply to legally qualified sheriffs, police officers and other persons whose bona fide duty it is to execute process, civil or criminal, make arrests, or aid in conserving the public peace, nor to persons traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.

cshoff · Jan 26, 2011

lancej3540 said:
Sec. 17-21. Dangerous and concealed weapons; prohibitions concerning.
If any person shall carry concealed upon or about his person a dangerous or deadly weapon of any kind or description, or shall go into any church or place where people have assembled for religious worship, or into any schoolroom or place where people are assembled for educational, political, literary or social purposes, or to any election precinct on any election day, or into any courtroom during the sitting of court, or into any other public assemblage of persons met for any lawful purpose other than for militia drill, or meetings called under militia law of this state, having upon or about his person, concealed or exposed, any kind of firearms, bowie knife, springback knife, razor, metal knucks, billy, sword cane, dirk, dagger, slingshot or other similar deadly weapons or shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit any such weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner, or shall have any such weapon in his possession when intoxicated, or directly or indirectly, sell or deliver, loan or barter to any minor any such weapon, without the consent of the parent or guardian of such minor, he shall, upon conviction, be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor; but nothing contained in this section shall apply to legally qualified sheriffs, police officers and other persons whose bona fide duty it is to execute process, civil or criminal, make arrests, or aid in conserving the public peace, nor to persons traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.

If that is their current ordinance, it is sorely outdated and NOT compliant with state law.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 26, 2011

cshoff said:
If that is their current ordinance, it is sorely outdated and NOT compliant with state law.

I have seen several towns that still have this type of outdated codes and have contacted the state about this. The state doesn't seem to care.

Doc

aadvark · Jan 26, 2011

Open Carry, with a Permit, is LEGAL in Certain Places, under M.R.So 571.030(4).

cshoff · Jan 26, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
I have seen several towns that still have this type of outdated codes and have contacted the state about this. The state doesn't seem to care.

Doc

The state has no dog in the fight, really, as long as none of these municipalities attempt to enforce their unlawful ordinances. If/when they show up in a state court, that is when the state will get involved.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 26, 2011

aadvark said:
Open Carry, with a Permit, is LEGAL in Certain Places, under M.R.So 571.030(4).

Good Day Mr Aadvark,

Your statement seems misleading and I do not know how it applies any relevance to the topic of Arnold MO. The state law you brought up is this.

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner.

Doc

cshoff · Jan 26, 2011

aadvark said:
Open Carry, with a Permit, is LEGAL in Certain Places, under M.R.So 571.030(4).

RSMO 571.030 (4) has nothing to do with open carry or any kind of permit. 571.030 (4) is essentially Missouri's version of a "brandishing" law:

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
.
.
.
(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

If you are thinking about RSMO 571.030.4., again, it has nothing to do with open carry as far as state law is concerned. While certain political subdivisions in this state have exceptions for CCW permit holders written into their ordinances in regards to open carry, those ordinances have no bearing on how the state views the act of openly carrying a firearm. Nothing in 571.030.4. should be construed as "permission" from the State to openly carry a firearm anywhere.

usmcbess · Feb 3, 2011

patriotthad said:
Josh,
Welcome to the OC world. There are a few things to remember when OCing.
#1 Do not take the gun from it's holster for any reason other than self defense.
#2 If you are approached by police, remain as calm and cooperative as possible.
#3 If the officer does arrest you, do not resist. If you are being arrested when there is no violation of the law, contact a lawyer asap.
#4 Read Arnold's city ordinance on peace disturbance, weapons or any thing that MIGHT be used against you.

I concur on all but #2. Don't cooperate with any unlawful orders! If you don't want to produce I.D. and they don't have probable cause don't produce an I.D. or otherwise identify yourself. Do not consent to unlawful searches or seizures. The fifth amendment is there for a reason. Don't say anything you don't have to.

cash50 · Feb 5, 2011

/\ /\ /\ /\ I think you meant the 4th Amendment...

Richieg150 · Feb 5, 2011

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; {nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself}, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

I think BOTH the fourth & fifth amendments apply to a LEO encounter,keeping your mouth shut and giving them nothing they can use against you applies to the fifth I believe.

REALteach4u · Feb 8, 2011

Josh Carne said:
My name is josh i am 22 years old and i open carried for my first time today. Like everyone, on here i wanted to know the laws and how the leo's would react about oc. I called the police department and the officer that helped me was very friendly and honest. I asked him about the legality of carrying openly in the arnold city limits. He explained to me that it is not illegal and HE had no problem with it. He informed me that if someone called in and complained, depending on what officer showed up i could be charged with disturbing the peace.

I found this man to be very helpful. i open carried at the gas station to fuel my car up and had no funny looks at all. I will oc more often now that i know that it is legal.

Josh,

Good job asking the question. But, be aware that most LE departments are completely clueless to the law as it relates to firearms. DO NOT EVER take anything you're told over the phone as fact or law, especially from a LE department or their representative(s)! Always get it in writing or ask for where you can get it in writing, that's the only way you're protected in court.

Let me remind you of one important fact: Police officers are allowed to lie and nothing they say is admissable in court (called hearsay) unless it's recorded. This is per US Supreme Court ruling.

If it's not in writing and you have to go to court on the matter (specifically if you practiced what you were told and it was incorrect), guess what's going to be said - I don't know what he's talking about, I never told him that, here's the law in my hands so submit it as evidence.

open carry in arnold. i called the police department.

New member

Activist Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

New member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member