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Thread: Rep. George Lavender to introduce Open Carry Bill

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    Rep. George Lavender to introduce Open Carry Bill

    Gents,

    Pooley and I have both had conversations with Lavender staffers who confirm an Open Carry bill is being drafted right now with a very high priority.

    If you are a constituent of Rep. Lavender, burn up the phone lines giving him your support. If he isn't burn up your reps and senators' phone lines asking them to cosponsor or support the bill.

    Is this a light at the end of the tunnel? I hope so!

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    I absolutely will! Hope this goes well.

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    I put this in the other topic, putting it here too, Rep Dennis Bonnen (district 25) would fully support an open-carry bill put before him

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonSoul View Post
    I put this in the other topic, putting it here too, Rep Dennis Bonnen (district 25) would fully support an open-carry bill put before him
    Excellent!

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    Even though the bill has not been filed yet , other Texas representatives, and senators can be contacted and urged to have their offices communicate with Rep. George Lavender's office for purposes of supporting his efforts.

    I just sent an e-mail to Representative Drew Darby in District 72 (San Angelo) summarizing the constitutional, and historical context of the RIGHT to carry while framing the issue in light of the recent SCOTUS decisions. I referred his office to Rep. Lavender's office. Texans will respond to a call for restoration of liberty.

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    In a pinch all they'd have to do is amend PC46.15 to set a definite standard on is traveling

    The simplest fix is to change is traveling to is not prohibited from purchasing a handgun, but I got the impression they want to make it jive better with concealed carry, so a license holder can't be pestered for failing to conceal & other such potential problems/confusion. There's a limit to the scope of a single bill and I've no idea how many sections/subsections can be amended in one swipe. To be honest I wouldn't expect to see this one introduced until early February just so they have plenty of time to get all their bases covered.

    That being said, I still check about 20 times throughout the day to see it it's been introduced yet...

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    Hold on here people!
    Dont call Lavenders office and keep his phone lines burned up. I can honestly say that Geroge has Open Carry on his list. The man is the most pro gun politician you will have the pleasure of knowing.
    Instead of driving him crazy, how about sending him a Email thanking the man for his service.
    Lavender is great, so rest assure he represents Texans as a true Conservitive.
    Spending your time calling other Representatives for their support would be better time spent.

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    Careful. There was a case where a person was felon in Japan, and was prohibited

    Quote Originally Posted by pooley View Post
    In a pinch all they'd have to do is amend PC46.15 to set a definite standard on is traveling

    The simplest fix is to change is traveling to is not prohibited from purchasing a handgun, but I got the impression they want to make it jive better with concealed carry, so a license holder can't be pestered for failing to conceal & other such potential problems/confusion. There's a limit to the scope of a single bill and I've no idea how many sections/subsections can be amended in one swipe. To be honest I wouldn't expect to see this one introduced until early February just so they have plenty of time to get all their bases covered.

    That being said, I still check about 20 times throughout the day to see it it's been introduced yet...
    You have to be very careful here. There was a case, I recall, where the law read that felons are prohibited from carrying a firearm, and a fellow was convicted of a felony in Japan, that would not even have been a crime here in the U.S., and he was prohibited from possessing arms.

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    That's pretty interesting, but it shouldn't apply in this case. PC46.04 addresses possession by a felon, (they can possess firearms 5 years after the end of their parole/probation). PC46.15(b) is a list of exceptions to the restrictions on carrying in PC46.02.

    I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.


    EDIT:
    Here's PC46.04(f) It actually specifies this state, another state, or the US, so international convictions don't necessarily even come into play.

    (f) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this state, another state, or the United States is, except as provided by Subsection (g), a felony if, at the time it is committed, the offense:
    (1) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;
    (2) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law of this state as a felony; or
    (3) is punishable by confinement for one year or more in a penitentiary.
    (g) An offense is not considered a felony for purposes of Subsection (f) if, at the time the person possesses a firearm, the offense:
    (1) is not designated by a law of this state as a felony; and
    (2) does not contain all the elements of any offense designated by a law of this state as a felony.
    Last edited by pooley; 01-23-2011 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Added reference

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    open carry bill......

    with or without a permission card?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSuddeth View Post
    open carry bill......

    with or without a permission card?
    Why are people opposed to licensed OC? I know constitutional carry is the ideal but we're fighting 130 years of infringement. Don't you think baby steps are preferable to no steps at all? Licensure regulations are easy to modify or eliminate in a later session.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jecsd1 View Post
    Why are people opposed to licensed OC? I know constitutional carry is the ideal but we're fighting 130 years of infringement. Don't you think baby steps are preferable to no steps at all? Licensure regulations are easy to modify or eliminate in a later session.
    That is easy to answer.
    Why would we want licensed open carry when we can lobby for Constitutional Open Carry.
    Im not a baby! Im a grown man who doesnt see it necessary for any law abiding adult in Texas to ask for permission so he or she can exercise their rights.
    All this licensing garbage is not necessary. I dont like be taxed for my Constitutional Rights and will not support any bill that does so!
    The first and most important thing ALL OF YOU need to understand, is the Representatives that are working to get this bill entered dont support Taxing your rights either.
    Texas Legislature is getting a lot better than it use to be, USE OR YOU'LL LOSE IT.....

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    Regular Member pooley's Avatar
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    Constitutional carry is our ultimate goal. That's what we all want, but not taking a step forward every session is the same as taking a step backward. Even if we only get a small portion of what we're after, it's better than going all out & failing. I'm not saying don't try. I'm saying even if we fail, and there is that possibility, a little bit is better than nothing.

    Going from licensed CC only to constitutional carry is a huge step. Going from licensed CC to licensed OC is a much smaller step, and another small step from Licensed OC to our goal of perfectly legal, unlicensed OC anywhere, anytime we want. That step may only be one session away if the groundwork is laid this time around. All we need is to get the ball rolling in the right direction, it will gain momentum.

    That being said, none of us know any details about the bill Mr. Lavender is working on. It may be licensed OC or it may be the end-all solution we want, repealing PC46.02 & PC46.05. None of us will know for sure until it's submitted but regardless of the details or limitations, I'm still asking my rep (David Simpson) to support it & he has in no uncertain terms promised to support any OC bill that gets introduced. Actually, he's promised to support pretty much every pro-gun bill, but he did mention open carry specifically in his responses.

    My response for jecsd1,
    I do support licensed OC strictly as a means to an end.
    I absolutely don't support licensed OC as the final result.


    OK, I'm off my soapbox now

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    Quote Originally Posted by jecsd1 View Post
    Why are people opposed to licensed OC? I know constitutional carry is the ideal but we're fighting 130 years of infringement. Don't you think baby steps are preferable to no steps at all? Licensure regulations are easy to modify or eliminate in a later session.
    Like MrRedneck said: you have to ask for more than what you'll settle for.

    Constitutional carry is the goal. Most people here would settle for unlicensed OC and licensed CC. Others would settle for licensed carry, either OC or CC. Hardly anyone objects to more freedom, but most understand that we will probably wind up with something less than the ideal, because that's the nature of the political process.

    You never submit a bill that proposes exactly what you want. You always ask for more, because some of it will get bargained away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jecsd1 View Post
    Why are people opposed to licensed OC? I know constitutional carry is the ideal but we're fighting 130 years of infringement. Don't you think baby steps are preferable to no steps at all? Licensure regulations are easy to modify or eliminate in a later session.
    Fight for constitutional carry, accept licensed open carry in the spirit of "cooperation", amend it in the next session. It's strategery.

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    i would rather oc without a license but if this is the only way we can get oc with a license then i will except that for know to hot here in texas cc

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    I personally can not believe that texas hasnt already had open carry without a license. that really disappoints me with the lonestar state. I was always under the impression that texas was very gun friendly. You guys could always move to KY, the most gun friendly state in the U.S, where the constitution protects open carry and laws cannot be made to limit it.

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    The main problem is that people don't think this issue through. People thought electing a Catholic President in 1960 was going to result in a Catholic priest being appointed to every cabinet post.

    People thought granting women the vote would immediately result in a woman President - which probably wouldn't have been a bad idea - considering most of the men subsequently elected to that office.

    The "sensitivity" merchants who foretell an epidemic of irresponsible armed OC "menacing" in Texas apparently never travel to any of those 43 other "dangerous" OC states- like Colorado. Engaging in menacing, or threatening behavior with any armament will earn a complimentary stainless steel bracelet anywhere in the U.S.

    The "concerns" about what OC might result in is all about keeping the RTKBA out-of sight, out of mind, and eventually out of existence. Until this constitutional crisis is remedied in Texas, maybe more folks down there OC'ing their 5 1/2 inch "hunting knives" would serve to dispell some of the "concerns". CC the Glock, and OC the knife? Perhaps OC that extra mag pouch ?

    "Why are you wearing THAT KNIFE ? " ......"Because I have to conceal my Glock."

    "Why are you wearing that magazine pouch on your belt ?" ....." Well, the U.S. Supreme Court said that I have the right to be armed in case of confrontation."

    "But - what good are those bullets in that magazine , without a gun ?"

    "Absolutely no good at all."

    I know - the more you reflect on this nonsense - the more the utter ridiculousness is revealed.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 01-25-2011 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jecsd1 View Post
    Why are people opposed to licensed OC? I know constitutional carry is the ideal but we're fighting 130 years of infringement. Don't you think baby steps are preferable to no steps at all? Licensure regulations are easy to modify or eliminate in a later session.
    why should I have to demonstrate to the government I created that I'm capable of exercising my rights? Why should I have to pay the government I created to carry a hall pass to exercise my rights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jordanmills View Post
    Fight for constitutional carry, accept licensed open carry in the spirit of "cooperation", amend it in the next session. It's strategery.
    Imay have been unclear. I completely agree with the statement above I just hate the all or nothing approach to get there. It seems to fail more often than not.

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    how much longer do we have to wait for this bill to be announce

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    Quote Originally Posted by jecsd1 View Post
    Imay have been unclear. I completely agree with the statement above I just hate the all or nothing approach to get there. It seems to fail more often than not.
    Name one Open Carry bill that you have seen fail in Texas?
    The only thing I have seen is failed attempts, unorganized constituents, and elitist opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by have gun will travel View Post
    how much longer do we have to wait for this bill to be announce
    Be patient, it's in the works.

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    Just so I'm clear (and I'm being genuinely serious and not antagonistic), if this "bill" that we keep hearing rumors about ever does surface, and it is a licensed OC bill, most people here will not support it?!?!

    IF that's the case, that seems a bit counter productive. Whether we start for constitutional carry and are forced to downgrade to licensed to get it passed, or start with licensure and then push for constitutional later; don't you all think we should support ANY ANY ANY ANY bill that would return our rights to us?? Even if it's a little at a time??

    I seem to remember OC being pushed really hard last session and it scared some "on the fence" politicians away. We have a commanding majority in the legislature this session and I would hate bickering to squander it.

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    If at first it is "Licensed Open Carry" then so be it, the Licensing can be changed later. First, get in, then change the room from inside! Constitutional Carry would be preferred but we also need to be realistic. Some in Texas are already angered over the UTAH LICENSE which Texans can receive, but the money is going to UTAH and Texas has a shortfall in revenue at this time. So if the "OPEN CARRY" comes with LICENSE REQUIREMENTS, well I understand and I will support it, eventhough, I don't completely like the Idea.
    Last edited by Cowboy_Rick; 01-27-2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: spelling

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