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Thread: CPL - Island County - Help!

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Question CPL - Island County - Help!

    Introduction:
    Hi, I'm basically new here besides having lurked the forums for over a year and decided to join as I now am having a problem with Island County.

    I am Wa born but was raised elsewhere and I returned and have been a resident for 5 months now.

    Now to the subject:
    I finally applied for my WA CPL in Island County on the 20th Dec. I live outside of Oak Harbor so I had to go to Coupeville to apply. I paid my fee hand my prints taken etc and they told me it was going to take a least 30 days....

    When they told me that, I got my first clue I was likely to be drug through the mud; I'm already familiar with RCW 9.41.070 (1).

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.
    I also know that they cannot preempt state laws.

    I called Is County Sheriffs office on the 12th Jan to check and see if it was ready. I was told it had not been 30 days... and that it would be ready on the 20th. I'm no dud and by my count that is 31 days after my application. So I decided yesterday to walk in and "pick up" my license that by RCW should have been complete. Needless to say, it was not and the lady was irritated by my presence. Don't get me wrong I was very polite but she was indignant and told me it may be another week. She stated I should call maybe once a week and not everyday. I tried to mention RCW and she interupted me in the midst of the word "Washington," swung her fist and said "shoot..."

    I have read elsewhere that they are pretty bad with CPLs particularly for the Navy folks. I've read that Kitsap county is the best place to go for non-residents to apply and that they can have their's possibly day one...

    I feel as though I'm being played by Island county sheriff's office. They have treated me like I'm stupid. They are abusing their authority and breaking RCW. If RCW 9.41.070 (1) is part of my 2nd rights then they are violating my rights at this point.

    What recourse do I have? Do I complain to the county commissioner, state legislatures, a lawyer, the NRA? How many other people do they yank around? Who keeps them accountable?

    I would like to be able to carry in my vehicle and I am being kept from it.

    I even put of purchasing a new BUG to wait for my CPL which I decided to pay for last night and wait for anyway. And in the process of doing paperwork on it they said, "Oh you live in Island County..." Apparently it can take a week or two for Island county to do their part. I may have to wait more than 5 days to pick up my purchase, possibly a week plus.

    Any advise would be helpful and appreciated.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Thanks for the speedy reply and the information.

    (1) The state, local governmental entities, any public or private agency, and the employees of any state or local governmental entity or public or private agency, acting in good faith, are immune from liability:
    (d) For failing to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person eligible for such a license;
    Wow really... Apparently they know this and abuse it. I know full well if I had a county level fine and 30 days to pay they would not give me any slack.

    (2) An application may be made to a court of competent jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus:
    (a) Directing an issuing agency to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license wrongfully refused;
    $230, that seems high but I may go this route.

    Has anyone else had this issue with Island county?
    Last edited by bmg50cal; 01-20-2011 at 06:00 PM.

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    Wow. Sorry to hear about your problem with Island County. I would e-mail the sheriff and remind him Washington is a shall issue state and you expected to have your permit within the prescribed thirty days. Then I would ask him if there was some reason his office was unable or unwilling to comply with the law. I would also remind him his office didn't have any problem taking your money. I live in SeaTac and didn't have any problems with them. They were very courteous and quick but they did require an appointment. Which I was able to make for later the same day. Same for the renewal.
    irfner

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    What evidence of residency did you provide? Unless it's pretty iron-clad they may waiver on that to stretch you out. Not that it's right to do that. In any event, they get to double the time if your proof of residency is not flawless.

    I fully expected problems when I applied in King County, but 20 days later, it's in my mail box.

    Hope you get it soon.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    Thanks for the speedy reply and the information.



    Wow really... Apparently they know this and abuse it. I know full well if I had a county level fine and 30 days to pay they would not give me any slack.



    $230, that seems high but I may go this route.

    Has anyone else had this issue with Island county?
    My wife & I had the same deal, pretty much. Made to wait 30 days and didn't know better about challenging it. Don't remember getting any attitude at the time tho. And for some reason they mailed them to the little volunteer-run branch office here in Freeland, so we both had to take the day off (only open weird days) to go pick the up. IIRC it was right on day 30.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irfner View Post
    Wow. Sorry to hear about your problem with Island County. I would e-mail the sheriff and remind him Washington is a shall issue state and you expected to have your permit within the prescribed thirty days. Then I would ask him if there was some reason his office was unable or unwilling to comply with the law. I would also remind him his office didn't have any problem taking your money.
    irfner
    I may do as suggested and send questions to the man himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    What evidence of residency did you provide? Unless it's pretty iron-clad they may waiver on that to stretch you out. Not that it's right to do that. In any event, they get to double the time if your proof of residency is not flawless.
    I had with me my WA drivers license, Island county voter registration ID, WA fishing license and a bank statement with my address. My background is clean as well. Drivers license was issued on 9/14/10.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic but I just read somewhere, where a sheriff cannot deny you your CPL because you don't live in his county, it was part of the list and I.D. was also included.


    Did a search and found it.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/op...=topic&id=6850
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Slightly off topic but I just read somewhere, where a sheriff cannot deny you your CPL because you don't live in his county, it was part of the list and I.D. was also included.


    Did a search and found it.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/op...=topic&id=6850

    In that 1983 opinion, it states:
    Nowhere within this or any other current statute do we find any basis for the denial of a license to carry a pistol solely on the ground that the applicant, although otherwise eligible to receive such a license, is not a resident of the county to the sheriff of which the application is made.
    Does anyone know if this part of the current RCW 9.41.070 was added after that opinion?

    13) A person may apply for a concealed pistol license:

    (a) To the municipality or to the county in which the applicant resides if the applicant resides in a municipality;

    (b) To the county in which the applicant resides if the applicant resides in an unincorporated area; or

    (c) Anywhere in the state if the applicant is a nonresident.
    If added after 1983, this would appear to me to negate that portion of the previous AG's opinion.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    This RCW has been updated a few times since this AGO.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2l3 View Post
    This RCW has been updated a few times since this AGO.
    Yea damn seems like it. Thought for a second I had found something good.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yea damn seems like it. Thought for a second I had found something good.
    Hey, you tried.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

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    Yo,
    I live here in Coupeville and have had no problems with Island County (knock on wood), in fact I actually got my CPL in like 15 days. I must have submitted mine just as they were doing a bunch of them.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    I received a letter today from the Civil Clerk it was post marked the 21st. It states my permit is ready to pick up... They could have slipped it into the envelope for all I care.

    I did not mention this before but my father also applied the same day that I did he also received a letter. It states...
    issuance is being held up due to the background check. It will be issed when we are in receipt of further information we have requested.
    With my permit supposedly complete, bugging the county with letters and beyond will not do me much good. I'll see how my father fairs with his delay.

    Well at least if anyone else has issue with Island county I'll have documentation ready and available for further evidence of their behavior.

    I would love to see RCW 9.41.70 (13) lose (a) & (b) so it looks like the below. Let the various offices compete for the money.

    (13) A person may apply for a concealed pistol license:

    (a) To the municipality or to the county in which the applicant resides if the applicant resides in a municipality;

    (b) To the county in which the applicant resides if the applicant resides in an unincorporated area; or

    (c) Anywhere in the state if the applicant is a nonresident.
    Last edited by bmg50cal; 01-22-2011 at 07:45 PM.

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    10-4. Good to know your wait is over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    I received a letter today from the Civil Clerk it was post marked the 21st. It states my permit is ready to pick up... They could have slipped it into the envelope for all I care.

    I did not mention this before but my father also applied the same day that I did he also received a letter. It states...

    With my permit supposedly complete, bugging the county with letters and beyond will not do me much good. I'll see how my father fairs with his delay.

    Well at least if anyone else has issue with Island county I'll have documentation ready and available for further evidence of their behavior.

    I would love to see RCW 9.41.70 (13) lose (a) & (b) so it looks like the below. Let the various offices compete for the money.
    They are violating the law as far as your dad is concerned. They are required to issue it on the 30th day regardless of additional info. If there is nothing to deny it on the 30th day they are bound by law to issue it. LEA have tried to get the law changed in the past because they were having to go out to the CPL holders house and confiscate the CPL because info came back after 30 days that would have denied the issuance had the LEA gotten it in a timely manner.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Last edited by jbone; 01-22-2011 at 10:24 PM.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    They are violating the law as far as your dad is concerned. They are required to issue it on the 30th day regardless of additional info. If there is nothing to deny it on the 30th day they are bound by law to issue it.
    Yes I know, unfortunately RCW 9.41.0975 protects the issuing authority (thanks to Navy LT for linking it).

    1) The state, local governmental entities, any public or private agency, and the employees of any state or local governmental entity or public or private agency, acting in good faith, are immune from liability:

    (d) For failing to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person eligible for such a license;
    (2) An application may be made to a court of competent jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus:

    (a) Directing an issuing agency to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license wrongfully refused;
    The clerk, verbally to me, passed blame to the county commissioner. They said people were laid off. To me they the clerks do not looked stresses or overworked. To me excuses are like buttholes; they stink and everyone has them.

    Submitting these background checks is streamlined. It is by no means as extensive as the background check for security clearances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post

    Submitting these background checks is streamlined. It is by no means as extensive as the background check for security clearances.
    Yes, they are streamlined. Last time I had mine renewed, the lady did it while I waited and she had an answer back in a few keystrokes and a carriage return. (Enter key for you younger guys)....

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Have you talked to the actual Sheriff?
    Quick way to get through is to tell whoever answers the phone that you are a "contributor to his re-election campaign".

    This worked for me about 30 years ago when I wanted to talk to the King County Sheriff.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I just wrote an email to the Sheriff and explained that the info that the lady at the counter at Island County Sheriff's office (I had her name then) was giving out erroneous information about driver's license requirements and quoted the appropriate RCW and WAC's about which she was mistaken. The Sheriff thanked me for my email and said that he would correct the situation.

    Maybe that's why the probably same woman is being snotty now, who knows? She was snotty when I called on day 29 too. But, if this is the same woman, the Sheriff has heard about her at least once before (two years ago), so maybe he will tire of hearing her name.
    Probably has been tired for a long time. She's most likely Civil Service and possibly a friend of the Sheriff's wife so he can't do anything about it without creating problems for himself.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post

    .......I would like to be able to carry in my vehicle and I am being kept from it.........

    Just to clarify.
    You can still carry in your vehicle absent a permit.
    RCW 9.41.050 restricts the carry of a loaded pistol in a vehicle.
    You can still carry in your car as long as it is unloaded, and not concealed on your person.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    It's less of an issue now that I have my CPL, picked it up yesterday and drove straight to Office Max and paid $1.19 to get it laminated. I figure if I make official complaint I'll be viewed in a light that would paint me a troublemaker.

    My father called before I left to pick mine up and his was still not ready. He calls BS but isn't upset enough to do anything besides call them every few days and make them burn a calorie picking up the phone.

    It's 36 days and counting. Go Island County!

    I think a here 'Yakety Sax' by James Q. "Spider" Rich playing in the background. When I think about this.
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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Update on my father's CPL

    My father has still yet to receive his CPL. They have not denied him either, there isn't any reason they can. The only thing that would have been a problem was expunged a very long time ago and he has the papers with the watermarks and nice shiny gold seal to prove it.

    It has been 57 calendar days since he applied, he is a resident and the law allows the issuing authority 30 days. The former expunged blip on his record should not be a cause for them taking this long.

    I'm "concerned" about this situation for my father's sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    My father has still yet to receive his CPL. They have not denied him either, there isn't any reason they can. The only thing that would have been a problem was expunged a very long time ago and he has the papers with the watermarks and nice shiny gold seal to prove it.

    It has been 57 calendar days since he applied, he is a resident and the law allows the issuing authority 30 days. The former expunged blip on his record should not be a cause for them taking this long.

    I'm "concerned" about this situation for my father's sake.
    The law does not allow them to issue it. The law requires them to issue it on the 30th day if there is nothing found by that time to disqualify him. He needs to point this out to the sheriff and let him know that his office is in violation of the law.
    Last edited by joeroket; 02-15-2011 at 05:22 PM.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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  25. #25
    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    The law does not allow them to issue it. The law requires them to issue it on the 30th day if there is nothing found by that time to disqualify him. He needs to point this out to the sheriff and let him know that his office is in violation of the law.
    If the thread were read in it's entirety one would know that I already have knowledge of this.

    I sent the Sheriff an email just moments ago. An expedient response, a timely issuance (relative to today) and an apology to my father will settle it in my book. I do not want to have to take it any further than necessary.

    I am not a lawyer by any means but I'm an INTJ.

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