SPD inquest results are in

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/114299464.html

not sure how the prosecutor will lean after the jury was so divided.

kenzmad

I feel so bad for that guy. I mean, to even have time to gather yer marbles and figure out that someone is yelling at you, then turn around and get shot..

I put myself in his shoes, where I am minding my own business just walkin along somewhere. I would really have had no clue that I was the subject of the officers interest, with him just yelling like that.

Putting yourself in that situation.. (Just like he was, no gun, just walkin along about your business).. Do you think you would have responded quickly enough before being shot?

Lots of attention has been given to this "Jury" but the real news will come when the Prosecutor decides to charge or not. And then we get to wait for SPD's final determination on his continued employment with the Department (or not).

At least two more steps, possibly three, before this is resolved.

There should be some good conversation between now and then.

Just goes to show how many people are willing to believe in the police, no matter what facts or eye witnesses are presented. It is just difficult to get past all the childhood training that the police are always the good guys.
irfner

Why did the officer even feel the need to make contact? I fiddle with my knife all the time, so what, I'm brandishing?

After seeing that woman from the east coast tumble into the mall fountain while texting, I certainly wouldn't "fiddle" with a knife while walking if I were you...

And he is on paid leave hasn't seen the inside of a jail cell, while they "investigate", It's sickening. They really are a protected class.

sudden valley gunner said:

And he is on paid leave hasn't seen the inside of a jail cell, while they "investigate", It's sickening. They really are a protected class.

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He hasn't been arrested or charged with anything yet. Until it is determined (legally) whether he broke any law he is entitled to the same rights you or I would expect. Can't say he's being protected until he's been arrested, charged and then released with no bail I'd agree with you. Until the process is finished he's just a Police Officer who claims he was just doing his job. It's up to the Evidence, Court, and Jury to determine if he wasn't. You'd demand no less if you were in similar circumstances. Remember, this is the first time in King County that an inquest jury has refused to exonerate an officer for killing a subject. He may not be as "protected" as you think.

Frankly I'd like to see him spend a long time in jail but only after he's received his constitutionally protected right of due process. No Lynching.

amlevin said:

He hasn't been arrested or charged with anything yet. Until it is determined (legally) whether he broke any law he is entitled to the same rights you or I would expect. Can't say he's being protected until he's been arrested, charged and then released with no bail I'd agree with you. Until the process is finished he's just a Police Officer who claims he was just doing his job. It's up to the Evidence, Court, and Jury to determine if he wasn't.

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Like any other citizen, that officer should be subject to arrest based on the evidence at the scene as determined by the investigating officers who are brought in from another agency to avoid bias.

He should also have the same choice as any other free citizen, at the scene: give a statement, or remain silent and contact your personal attorney. None of this union/gov collusion to protect dirty cops form the consequences of their actions.

Then he can sit in jail, like a regular citizen (which he is), and later face an inquest to determine if charges are actually filed.

I'd bet 20:1 this murdering dirt bag walks, like every other SPD officer who has recently injured citizens and abused their position. Either that, or they will throw him under the bus to try and put off a Federal investigation into the SPD, but I doubt that will happen.

Dave_pro2a said:

Like any other citizen, that officer should be subject to arrest based on the evidence at the scene as determined by the investigating officers who are brought in from another agency to avoid bias.

He should also have the same choice as any other free citizen, at the scene: give a statement, or remain silent and contact your personal attorney. None of this union/gov collusion to protect dirty cops form the consequences of their actions.

Then he can sit in jail, like a regular citizen (which he is), and later face an inquest to determine if charges are actually filed.

I'd bet 20:1 this murdering dirt bag walks, like every other SPD officer who has recently injured citizens and abused their position. Either that, or they will throw him under the bus to try and put off a Federal investigation into the SPD, but I doubt that will happen.

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Not everyone in this State is arrested "at the scene" after shooting someone, especially if they claim Self Defense. It IS a little different with a police officer as he is more likely than an ordinary citizen to encounter someone with a weapon and the desire to do harm with it.

Recent cases, one in Arlington comes to mind, have had the police merely interview the shooter and then investigate without arresting him. After the investigation was completed they THEN arrested him. Remember an arrest requires a charge within a time limit. A charge then "starts the clock" and sometimes more time is required to do a proper investigation and examine all the evidence.

BTW, here's the cite from Washington State Court rules on warrantless arrests.

CrR 3.2.1
PROCEDURE FOLLOWING WARRANTLESS ARREST -
PRELIMINARY APPEARANCE
(a) Probable Cause Determination. A person who is arrested shall
have a judicial determination of probable cause no later than 48
hours following the person’s arrest, unless probable cause has
been determined prior to such arrest.

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This covers the warrantless arrest. In order to obtain an arrest warrant, a Judge would have to be convinced that there was probable cause and then the 90 day clock starts once the arrest is made.

Ever seen an investigation involving a Police shooting take less than that amount of time? Ditto on some involving citizens, especially in SD cases.

amlevin said:

Not everyone in this State is arrested "at the scene" after shooting someone, especially if they claim Self Defense.

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Did I say based on the evidence at the scene? Yes, I think I did.

Dave_pro2a said:

Did I say based on the evidence at the scene? Yes, I think I did.

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You did. You also said

as determined by the investigating officers who are brought in from another agency to avoid bias.

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That might not happen in just a short time and might well take some evaluation such as witness statement comparison and any lab work.

Yet based on that evidence at that scene I have no doubt anyone but a non officer would have been arrested. Simple as that. Yet Berretta lady, had numerous witnesses attest to her self defense and she still got hauled off to jail.

VW_Factor said:

Putting yourself in that situation.. (Just like he was, no gun, just walkin along about your business).. Do you think you would have responded quickly enough before being shot?

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No.

SpyderTattoo said:

After seeing that woman from the east coast tumble into the mall fountain while texting, I certainly wouldn't "fiddle" with a knife while walking if I were you...

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Wait, are you saying that woman should have been shot in the side for falling into the fountain?

Here are the jurors' answers to a series of questions they were asked to answer:

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1. On August 20, 2010, did Seattle Police Officer Ian Birk observe John T. Williams crossing the street? Yes 8
2. Was John T. Williams holding an open knife at the time he was first observed by Officer Birk? Yes 8
3. Did Officer Birk get out of his patrol car to contact John T. Williams? Yes 8
4. Did Officer Birk gesture to John T. Williams to come back to Officer Birk's location? Yes 7 Unknown 1
5. Did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand when Officer Birk contacted him? Yes 8
6. Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down? Yes 8
If your answer to question 6 was yes, please answer the following four questions:
6a: Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down more than once? Yes 8
6b: Did John T. Williams have sufficient time to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order? Yes 1, No 4, Unknown 3
6c: Did John T. Williams try to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order? Unknown 8
6d: Did John T. Williams put the knife down before Officer Birk began to fire his weapon? No 8
7. Was the front of John T. Williams' upper body partially turned towards Officer Birk when Officer Birk began to fire his weapon? Yes 2, No 5, Unknown 1
7a: If no, was John T. Williams turning towards Officer Birk when Officer Birk fired his weapon? Yes 5
8. Did Officer Birk fire his weapon at John T. Williams on August 30, 2010? Yes 8
9. When Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand? Yes 8
9a. If yes, was John T. Williams' knife blade open when Officer Birk fired his weapon? No 4, Unknown 4
10. Did Officer Birk believe that John T. Williams posed an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon? Yes 4, Unknown 4
11. Based on the information available at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams then pose an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk? Yes 1, No 4, Unknown 3
12. Did John T. Williams die in King County, Washington on Aug. 30, 2010? Yes 8
13. Did John T. Williams die from the gunshot wounds caused by Officer Birk? Yes 8

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See #2 and #9a above.
1) Do you see any problem with the answers of these two questions?
a) #2 Was the blade of the knife opened at first observation? Answer: Yes 8
b) #9a Was the blade of the knife opened when gun was fired? Answer: No 4 Unknown 4

2) Are we to believe that Mr. Williams had his knife opened and started approaching the officer in a threatening way in 7 seconds from the moment of first contact, or that we are to believe, according to #2, that he had an open knife and closed it, according to #9a, and started approaching the officer? (I do believe he is carving wood at the time or holding a closed knife and looking at the wood he is carving.)

3) For what reason would anyone, let alone someone walking down a sidewalk minding his own business, make that kind of decision in that short of time? Did you see Mr. Williams make any negative gestures or looks at the officer? He never once looked up until he stepped up on the sidewalk at the curbside,and he did not look at the officer.

4) Did you hear the officer's response to the lady, "Ma'am, he had a knife and he wouldn't drop it. He didn't tell the woman the man threatened him.

5) He told the LE when arriving that "he wouldn't drop the knife and he turned towards me". He never said to the officers that he was threatened.

Why did the woman object to the officer shooting Mr. Williams? I believe she either told the officer that he had no right to shoot the man, or that the man had made no threats to the officer. I would like to know what she actually witnessed.

I never heard the officer once say he felt threatened. He said the man turned around with a knife in his hand.

Sorry Mr. Williams...but I don't like knives. Pow, pow, pow, pow, pow! (Sarcasm off.)

Is turning toward an officer with a knife in your hand reason to be shot? Especially when your back is to the officer and you are not yet aware he is actually talking to you.

The officer admits that the man was carving a board. Is that against the law? Was that sufficient reason to believe this man was committing a crime or was about to commit a crime? Was that sufficient reason to believe that this man was going to attack the officer?

I believe there are a "few" rotten potatoes in every potato patch. I believe the officers arriving after the shooting were working to protect this unjustifiable shooting from the start. They look after their own. I know this from personal experience "during" my job interview with the Ft. Worth Police Department with one of the questions they asked. That is another story for another time.

I know that LEO's may get special treatment...

But in SD cases, are we not guilty of homicide, but then, because of an exception, deemed not guilty of the crime?

IE, you killed someone, which is against the law (which a SD exception). If, and only if, the prosecutor decides it was a clear case of SD will you not be charged. If it is iffy, you will be charged, and forced to prove it in court.

Shouldn't this be the same? If there is any question, shouldn't he have to prove he was threatened just like we would?

+1 to above post.