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Thread: aadvark Notices another Sign!

  1. #1
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    aadvark Notices another Sign!

    The Michigan Department of Human Resources has Place a Sign in The Big Rapids DHS Facility that says Firearms are NOT Allowed and Cites Michigan Code 28.425o.

    I tried to Tell them that a Person with a Concealed Pistol License is Exempt from 'Pistol-Free' Areas so as long as such Person is indeed Licensed, by Michigan or another State, and is Openly Carrying a Firearm.

    Open Carry is Allowed under Michigan Penal Code 750.234d, notwithstanding, Michigan Public Safety Code 28.425o, so as long as The Person is BOTH Licensed and is Open Carrying.

    Please Help!

    *** My ONLY Concern would be that The Department of Human Resources DOES NOT Qualify as a 'Local Unit of Government' for The Purposes of Michigan Local Governmental Code 123.1100. ***

  2. #2
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    They are claiming(I assume) to be a child placing agency under 28.425o. That will be a tough nut to crack. I'm not sure it's a battle we could win.

  3. #3
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    scot623:

    Since Neither Michigan Penal Code 750.234d nor Michigan Public Safety Code 28.425o Enumerate Prohibitions of OPEN Carry in Public Buildings, and since Open Carry is LEGAL in Michigan, as Michigan ONLY Regualtes Concealed Carry except for The Places Listed under Michigan Penal Code 750.234d, then, it should be LEGAL to Openly Carry a Firearm in The Michigan Department of Human Services.

    Michigan Public Safety Code 28.425o(1) states:
    Subject to Subsection 4 [of this Code Section], an Individual Licensed under This Act to Carry a CONCEALED Pistol, or who is Exempt from Licensure under Section 12a(1)(f), shall not Carry a CONCEALED PISTOL on The Premises of any of The Following: (b) A Public or Private..., Child Placing Agency.

    Scenario

    Man with a Gun: Man with a Gun walks into Door with an Openly Carried Firearm, regardless of what Kind of Firearm, and Approaches Counter for Aid.
    Department of Human Services Staff: Sorry Sir, we DO NOT Allow Firearms in This Facility. [Points to Sign with Michigan Public Safety Code 28.425o Verbiage.]
    Man with a Gun: Ma'am, I would like to Point out that Although you Sign is Correct..., it ONLY Applies to CONCEALED CARRY not OPEN Carry, per The Verbiage Contained under Michigan Public Safety Code 28.425o(1).
    Department of Human Services Staff: We still DO NOT Allow Firearms Sir, it is OUR Policy.
    Man with a Gun: Ma'am, I would like to Point out that Although you have such a Policy, your Policy seems Preempted under Michigan Local Government Codes 123.1100 through 123.1105.
    Department of Human Services Staff: Please Leave, or we WILL Call The Police.
    Man with a Gun: Ma'am, I am Prepared to Deal with The Police, PLUS, if I am Arrested, this Incident could well Result in a Lawsuit being brought against The Michigan Department of Human Services, and The Police, for Various Criminal Charges and Injunctive and Punitive Relief. Lawsuits such as these, in Light of Past Litigation, has Prevailed in the Past, on Several Occasions, and this Instance will be NO Exception.

    aadvark

    *** The ONLY Problem would be that The Michigan Department of Human Services could Claim to be an Extension of State Authority and is not a 'Local Authority' as is Mentioned under Michigan Local Governmental Law 123.1100. ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 10:13 AM.

  4. #4
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    I never said you're wrong. I just said that would be a tough nut to crack.

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    I will tell you what is a Tough Nut to Crack..., trying to get FIP [Family Indepedence Program Cash Assistance] if you are a Single White Male with No Dependants and have Worked for most of your Adult Life but can not get any Help under The Personnel Responsiobility and Welfare Reconciliation Act [PROWRA], as under Michigan's Version of TANF [Temporarily Assistance to Needy Families], notwithstanding; The FACT that you have ALWAYS Paid Taxes and are Unemployed at NO Fault of your Own.
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 10:59 AM.

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    Ok, I pulled out my nutcracker. I called the DHS, not surprisingly...they had no idea how to help me. I was transferred to the Office of the Govenor? Ok. I go with it. I spoke with a Mr. Aue, after explaining the situation he understood where I was coming from. He fully grasped why only concealed carry isn't allowed at DHS offices based on the fact they are using the concealed carry law as there basis. He said he will look into the issue and get back to me. I also have his direct phone number to touch base with him in the future to check his progress.

  7. #7
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    I will follow Suit on this Issue as well!
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Ok, I pulled out my nutcracker. I called the DHS, not surprisingly...they had no idea how to help me. I was transferred to the Office of the Govenor? Ok. I go with it. I spoke with a Mr. Aue, after explaining the situation he understood where I was coming from. He fully grasped why only concealed carry isn't allowed at DHS offices based on the fact they are using the concealed carry law as there basis. He said he will look into the issue and get back to me. I also have his direct phone number to touch base with him in the future to check his progress.
    Sometimes all that is needed is to step up and make a call/visit. Whether or not the problem is resolved by a phone call or two... good on you for making the call.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
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    They are not a local unit of government.

    If you don't have kids, you're probably not going to get cash. If you were a girl, then things change a bit. That's socialism at its best. If you get it, lemme know how.

  10. #10
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    stainless1911:

    I used a FIP Application as an Excuse to Confront them about Their Unlawful Sign.

    I knew, in Advance, that my Application for FIP would be Denied for The Reasons henceforth Stated by Yourself.

    Why is The Michigan Department of Human Services not Considered a Local Authority, for The Purposes of State-wide Preemption under Michigan Local Government Code 123.1100?

    I Assume, in Good-Faith, that They are Exempt as They are a State Department, having been Created by The State, and therefore, beyond The Realm of of being Classified as a Local Governmental Unit.

    aadvark

  11. #11
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    I believe your assumption is correct.

    I hope we are wrong.

    Any state or federal building should grant the rights enumerated in the constitution.

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    stainless1911:

    It seems Unfathomable that The State would ever so kindly Exempt itself from its Own Laws, but in this Instance I think that it was Meant to Curtail Local Governments First, then, Focus on State Agencies Secondly.

    The State of Virginia currently has just such a Proposal that You may View here:
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...111+sum+SB1250

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-21-2011 at 01:53 PM.

  13. #13
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    Arrow

    I think you forgot the link.

  14. #14
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    stainless1911:

    I did forget The Link, by Mistake.

    aadvark

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