Gene German News Flash

Flipper said:

How appropriate - I hope Gene German sees this and does some soul searching.

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Not likely. Remember in his email reply back to me? He doesn't read forums.

Also, his soul searching will be when Hell freezes over.

something tells me he aint gonna sell us any training classes.

If we do not make noise, a lot of noise, concerning the utter stupidity of a permitted system, the incredible cost etc. we will get what they give us, not what we demand.

As for German, We really need to put up a response to his complete BS. Hopefully it gets printed somewhere besides here.

Just MHO

hardballer said:

If we do not make noise, a lot of noise, concerning the utter stupidity of a permitted system, the incredible cost etc. we will get what they give us, not what we demand.

As for German, We really need to put up a response to his complete BS. Hopefully it gets printed somewhere besides here.

Just MHO

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These are both very good thoughts and should be put into action.

He is not on Facebook, I looked.

hardballer said:

If we do not make noise, a lot of noise, concerning the utter stupidity of a permitted system, the incredible cost etc. we will get what they give us, not what we demand.

As for German, We really need to put up a response to his complete BS. Hopefully it gets printed somewhere besides here.

Just MHO

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If all you do is demand, you will not get what you are going for. Noise without communication is wasted. Make no mistake about it, every post which appears on this forum is being looked at by Madison. As a result of the "Noise" which has already been made, OCDI WI has drawn an incredible amount of attention to itself. All of the rudeness is being used by those who oppose Open Carry as an example of the type of individuals who wish to Open Carry.
Sending a rude or even threatening E-mail to Gene German is not going to accomplish anything except to make people look rude and a threat.
If Open Carriers in WI are portrayed as hot heads, Madison is not going to be open to unpermitted Open Carry when a bill is being drafted.
Signing a petition without reasonable rational discussion with those who have direct influence is wasted effort and is simply feel good fluff...

CalicoJack10 said:

Been talking to a couple people that I know over in MN, mostly ones that offer CCW classes. There is a big push for some reason for people in Wisconsin to get MN licenses. I have had mine for a while and it came up for renewal, so I called the usual suspects to see who could get me in for a class. Turns out with all the talk of Wisconsin adopting a license like MN, people are thinking that when this goes through they will be able to transfer their licenses over to WI. They don't seem to realize that MN has very little reciprocity with anyone if at all. You are better off waiting till Wisconsin decides what they are going to do.

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Waiting does you no good if you are going to leave the State tomorrow on a trip. The only reason people should wish to Open Carry is to defend yourself, and not simply as some kind of statement. Anyone who feels that carrying a firearm is important to self defense should be doing so wherever you travel whether that be inside or outside of WI. All it takes to get a FL permit is a Hunters' Safety Certificate or to be a Veteran. The excuse of huge training costs for a permit does not hold water.
There is no such thing as "transferring your permit to WI". If WI recognized non-resident permits for WI residents, you would not need to get another permit.
If WI will not recognize your MN non-resident permit, it is a safe bet that if you already have a MN permit, the additional training costs for a WI permit will be very minimal. If you "only" have a FL permit, you will likely pay more for WI training.

Interceptor_Knight said:

If all you do is demand, you will not get what you are going for. Noise without communication is wasted. Make no mistake about it, every post which appears on this forum is being looked at by Madison. As a result of the "Noise" which has already been made, OCDI WI has drawn an incredible amount of attention to itself. All of the rudeness is being used by those who oppose Open Carry as an example of the type of individuals who wish to Open Carry.
Sending a rude or even threatening E-mail to Gene German is not going to accomplish anything except to make people look rude and a threat.
If Open Carriers in WI are portrayed as hot heads, Madison is not going to be open to unpermitted Open Carry when a bill is being drafted.
Signing a petition without reasonable rational discussion with those who have direct influence is wasted effort and is simply feel good fluff...

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I tend to agree Interceptor.We can be as passionate as we want but we can't be rude.it will get us nowhere in this struggle We all have to be Adult , respectful & firm about how we go about it. Holding our breath like 4 year olds until we get Constitutional carry will accomplish one thing. A lot of Blue passed out people.
I want CC as much as anyone here..but there are acceptable ways of going about obtaining it.

How about working from within?

protias said:

I tend to have that way with people (getting them to agree with me).

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You had me at hello.

I figure if you carry a gun, you are willing to use it. If you can not afford training, then you probably can not afford the total cost to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger either.

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But if I take your course I will gain both physical and spiritual wealth beyond my wildest dreams.

Gene German

I have known Gene German since 2006. I don't agree with his prostitution of mandatory training in order to exercise a constitutional right. Part of German's insistance is based on the sytem in Minnesota where the carry of a firearm is strictly a state issued privilege and under absolute management by the state. Minnesota is one of six states in the union that does not have a right to keep and bear arms in their state constitution. Wisconsin has one of the best and because of the constitutional fundamental right the state has minimal liberty of management. The right can only be changed through the state constitutional amendment process not at the whim of the legislature. There is a significant difference between the two venue's and I'm not sure German has total understanding of the difference. However, let me say this; Gene German has rightly or wrongly been involved in Wisconsin gun politics since circa 2003, the original personal protection act. He has a measure of influence with both the state legislature and the media. All of this bad mouth dribble assasinating his motives and character on a public forum only plays to his advantage and implies that the members of this forum are rabble rousing radicals that probably are in need of significant training before they should be allowed to carry a lethal weapon in public. Every time we point one finger at someone else we have three pointing back. If we don't post civil and mature posts on this forum we are just putting nails in the gun rights coffin. Those people that will influence, determine and pass the laws we have to adhere to are watching.
Don't like my words, tough, suck it up and get proactive in the movement.

Interceptor_Knight said:

The only reason people should wish to Open Carry is to defend yourself, and not simply as some kind of statement.

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It's really none of your business why people do what they do.

Captain Nemo said:

...

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Okay, I'm still new here. How does a guy from a different state have any influence on WI law?

Side note:
He may label the members here however he chooses. It doesn't change the fact that we are organized, vote, and write letters. I don't agree with what he said to protias. I don't have to agree with what he said.

HandyHamlet said:

It's really none of your business why people do what they do. .

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It is when peacocks hurt our cause.

HandyHamlet said:

Okay, I'm still new here. How does a guy from a different state have any influence on WI law?

He may label the members here however he chooses. It doesn't change the fact that we are organized, vote, and write letters. .

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When that guy has credibility and a relationship with those who vote on WI proposed bills which may become law.
When a group is greatly outnumbered by other voters and those in the legislature pay more attention to what is said and done in public and the perception of that group by the general voting public than a few letters, that group should be using alot of tact.

Interceptor_Knight said:

It is when peacocks hurt our cause.

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Ridiculous.

How exactly are one's motivations for the sidearm on his belt discernible by anyone at a glance?

When that guy has credibility and a relationship with those who vote on WI proposed bills which may become law.
When a group is greatly outnumbered by other voters and those in the legislature pay more attention to what is said and done in public and the perception of that group by the general voting public than a few letters, that group should be using alot of tact.

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I don't understand any of this either. I thought CC was going to pass because we have the votes. I thought the general consensus here was Constitutional carry. Not to mention preaching tact in politics is absurd. :lol:

HandyHamlet said:

Ridiculous.

How exactly are one's motivations for the sidearm on his belt discernible by anyone at a glance?



I don't understand any of this either. I thought CC was going to pass because we have the votes. I thought the general consensus here was Constitutional carry. Not to mention preaching tact in politics is absurd.

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I do not believe that there is a general consensus in the legislature, even on the Republican side for unregulated unpermitted carry. The consensus on this internet message board is not representative of the Republicans in Madison.
One may not be able to discern intentions merely by observing a person walking down the street carrying their holstered firearm openly on their hip but many will infer state of mind and how rational someone or a unified group is if they act like a peacock demanding attention and ranting and raving concerned only with the sound of their own voice and not to what events are occuring around them. Politics is strategy and negotiations, not a bullhorn and a baseball bat.
I take the issue of carry very serious. I believe it to be a matter of life and death. It is necessary in order to defend against those who wish to do us and our Loved ones harm. There is alot of unconstructive noise and peacock strutting going on. The old addage regarding picking your battles is relevant. When an individual or group treats every interaction like a battle, it becomes pretty easy to be pigeon holed as simply irrational trouble makers.
When did we abandon the premise that this is a battle for the hearts and minds of the general public in order to change the general attitudes in WI regarding the carry of firearms? Once you begin to dismiss the importance and relevance of perception, credibility goes downhill fast.

Captain Nemo said:

Don't like my words, tough, suck it up and get proactive in the movement.

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Don't like our opinion? Tough, we have just as much right to it as you and your buddy Gene.

Interceptor_Knight said:

I do not believe that there is a general consensus in the legislature, even on the Republican side for unregulated unpermitted carry. The consensus on this internet message board is not representative of the Republicans in Madison.
One may not be able to discern intentions merely by observing a person walking down the street carrying their holstered firearm openly on their hip but many will infer state of mind and how rational someone or a unified group is if they act like a peacock demanding attention and ranting and raving concerned only with the sound of their own voice and not to what events are occuring around them. Politics is strategy and negotiations, not a bullhorn and a baseball bat.
I take the issue of carry very serious. I believe it to be a matter of life and death. It is necessary in order to defend against those who wish to do us and our Loved ones harm. There is alot of unconstructive noise and peacock strutting going on. The old addage regarding picking your battles is relevant. When an individual or group treats every interaction like a battle, it becomes pretty easy to be pigeon holed as simply irrational trouble makers.
When did we abandon the premise that this is a battle for the hearts and minds of the general public in order to change the general attitudes in WI regarding the carry of firearms? Once you begin to dismiss the importance and relevance of perception, credibility goes downhill fast.

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Say what? You totally lost me.

You believe carrying is a matter of life and death. Others might believe it is simply a matter of inalienable rights. Still others may carry for both those reasons or neither. it's no one's business why they do it. As long as they are responsible. Nothing you say will change that. Just because others do not subscribe to your thinking does not make them strutting peacocks.

And if Constitutional Carry is not a done deal I most certainly am going to distance myself from supporters of a permit system. I think the response portias received is " unconstructive noise and peacock strutting ". My job is not to kowtow to others who don't share my vision of the laws I wish to live under. My job is to get the laws I want passed. Not sure how calling and writing reps is unconstructive noise.

I thought CC was already passed twice in Wisco? Now there is a Republican majority. So aren't the hearts and minds of the public already won?

HandyHamlet said:

Say what? You totally lost me.

You believe carrying is a matter of life and death. Others might believe it is simply a matter of inalienable rights. Still others may carry for both those reasons or neither. it's no one's business why they do it. As long as they are responsible. Nothing you say will change that. Just because others do not subscribe to your thinking does not make them strutting peacocks.

And if Constitutional Carry is not a done deal I most certainly am going to distance myself from supporters of a permit system. I think the response portias received is " unconstructive noise and peacock strutting ". My job is not to kowtow to others who don't share my vision of the laws I wish to live under. My job is to get the laws I want passed. Not sure how calling and writing reps is unconstructive noise.

I thought CC was already passed twice in Wisco? Now there is a Republican majority. So aren't the hearts and minds of the public already won?

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He's talking inside the beltway politics. What he hasn't figured out yet is that the Madison group-think elitist syndrome is out the window now, people are waking up.

HandyHamlet said:

And if Constitutional Carry is not a done deal I most certainly am going to distance myself from supporters of a permit system. ....I thought CC was already passed twice in Wisco? Now there is a Republican majority. So aren't the hearts and minds of the public already won?

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The public is in support of a permit system. The legislature is in support of a permit system. At this point it is likely a sure thing. Gene is right that we already have Constitutional Carry for OC but we do not have it in the sense of unrestricted unpermitted carry in the manner of your choice (Open or Concealed). Unpermitted carry is not a done deal and the less reasonable Open Carriers are percieved as a group due in no small part to this board and to actions in public, the more likely that we will end up with a Concealed Carry Permit and not a Carry Permit where you may Open or Concealed Carry under the permit. Open Carry under the permit would be a move forward for us as we could Open Carry in a GFSZ just not likely on School Grounds. We would have an exception for both State and Federal GFSZ legislation, we likely would not have to wait 48 hours to walk out of a store with a handgun and we could Open Carry while driving in our vehicles.