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Thread: new to OC in Pittsburgh

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tdragon412's Avatar
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    new to OC in Pittsburgh

    Hey I have concerns about doing the OC thing in Pittsburgh not because of public ridicule, but being an African-American walking around with a firearm in plain view in this town could be a recipe for (death) not just disaster. Racial profiling is a fact not fiction, and even though I am a law abiding citizen served my country at home and abroad. that does not exempt me from the being seen as a thug or BG first and good man and lawful person after the arrest or death by presumption of being a deadly threat. I want to invoke my right to OC but I also want to make sure that I will be around to see my kids grow up and have all their God giving rights fulfilled. ADVICE PLEASE....!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Be kind, be courteous. If you encounter random citizens on the street, talk to them normally.

    If an officer asks you questions, don't answer them. If they persist, take down their name, badge, and ask them which zone they work.

    PA is not a stop and identify state, they have no right to know who you are, even though they can ask.

    One thing you'll run in to is, "I can run you to see if you can legally own the gun," no officer can. Some will claim to be able to search your wallet, which is unlawful.

    If you care about your identity,
    1) place your identification in your vehicle upon leaving
    or 2) hide your identification on your person where an unlawful frisk will not be apparent on the location.

    Ask if you're "Free to go" or "Am I being unlawfully detained?" Use stress during the unlawful part.

    If you're harassed by Pittsburgh police then call OMI, the pittsburgh version of "Internal affairs."

    http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/omi/

    Mr. Dean is an awesome guy, you'll have to go through a recorded on the phone report.

    Also, if you're harassed in any manner, please post on this forum and also send me a message. My phone number is (412) I B FURRY / 412-423-8779

    Everyone in the Pittsburgh police department understands open carry is lawful, especially after the 4th of July incident plus the fact everyone had open carry covered in the yearly MPOETC training.

    Most people think I'm somehow "pro-firearm," which is incorrect. I'm pro-civil rights, it's never been about firearms. Maybe I don't make this clear enough when I post with my online appearance.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Tdragon412's Avatar
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    Thank you I have alot of friends that work for the PPD and some relatives who are now retired PPD. I respect the trial and tribs that officers can go through, but know that the actions of the few can tarnish the image of the whole. just want to make sure i have all the facts laws and statutes so that i can protect myself in all arenas. Thank you for the response

  4. #4
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    One other thing, it also helps to speak to the zone supervisors and get to know them, especially where you frequent. You'll probably have a bunch of street reports written up about you(their own "system" of sorts). Most of the officers stick with the same schedule, so any negative reaction(if any) will cease after they get to know you, which is what one of the zone supervisors told me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Tdragon412's Avatar
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    well to be honest I havent started OCing yet just wanted to find out how safe it is. Since i have joined this site I have been doing alot of research on it and looked at alot of video on youtube and alot of reading the laws of PA. as well as the different borrows of pittsburgh. and the videos are quite eye opening I wanted to know has anyone been arrested or beating or killed in pittsburgh or PA for or because of OCing

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    First off, I want to thank you for your service to our country! And welcome to OCDO. We've got a GREAT group of people here, and many wise folks with a LOT of experience and knowledge in the law.

    Kangaroo's advice is sage--DO NOT volunteer any info to LE, past what you are required to do--which isn't much more than stating your name verbally.

    NEVER consent to a search or to them "seizing" your firearm. Don't fight them if they demand doing it--but make sure you verbally object to their unlawful and non-consensual search and/or seizure of your property.

    And ALWAYS keep a small digital voice recorder on your person when you OC if you are worried about some rogue cop hassling you. Considering the fact that you will be seen as a "BMWAG", as opposed to a law-abiding citizen, carrying a voice recorder is probably a REALLY good idea--They don't cost much, and can be worth their weight in gold if your rights ARE violated.

    About the only incident I can think of where a YBM (Young Black Male) was assaulted by PPD in association with a "gun"" was the case of Jordan Miles in early 2010. Three plainclothes PPD officers saw him walking down the street with a "bulge in his pocket", and started shouting, pursuing him, and brandishing firearms. The boy ran, fearing for his life, and when they caught him they beat the tar out of him, only to find that the "bulge" was, reportedly, a bottle of Mountain Dew in his coat pocket. So technically, this wasn't even really a firearms-related bit of racism--it was just outright racism, and the "gun" story was an excuse for some rogue cops to get their 'roid-rage jollies...

    Interestingly enough, his mother and friends all said he didn't even LIKE Mountain Dew, and was never known to drink it, and the alleged bottle was never entered as evidence...

    This kid was an Honor Student at CAPA-HS, dressed nicely, and minding his own business. Reportedly, the officers never identified themselves, or displayed credentials until AFTER the EMS folks showed up. The pictures of this young mans injuries at the hands of PPD are seriously disturbing--they really let him have it:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10027/1031317-53.stm


    So is it safe for a YBM to OC in Pittsburgh? I guess that depends. If you live in a "bad" neighborhood, you'll probably be harassed. If you are walking in a "good" neighborhood, you'll be viewed as suspicious. If you're dressed like a hoodrat, you WILL be targeted by LE. If you're dressed like a businessman, you'll probably be seen as "uppity" by some LEOs.

    I do not envy your situation. Unfortunately, Jim Crow is alive and well in many urban areas in the US, and there are MANY LEOs--of ALL races--that view any BMWAG as a serious threat.

    Know the law. Assert your rights. Be polite. Carry a recorder.

    And good luck!

    Keep us posted...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-23-2011 at 03:30 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  7. #7
    Regular Member Tdragon412's Avatar
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    thank you very much I will carry A recorder and just be aware of what takes place or can take place in our fair city. I cannot pass up the opportunity to let people know that those who own, carry and use firearms are not bad people looking to do harm but everyday people who love life, love God and country and love their constitutional rights...!!!!

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator
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    The main thing is to just carry in everyday life, mind your own business, etc., and people will rairly take any serious notice of you.

    Loiter, stare, randomly engage people with political talk, or otherwise act strangely, and you will attract attention and concern unnecessarily and not help our cause.

    Carry on!

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