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Thread: Com Monday ATF will again emulate NAZI gun control laws

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Com Monday ATF will again emulate NAZI gun control laws

    Sporting Use Ruling Coming Monday

    Today, the ATF announced at the 2011 SHOT Show that a new ruling would be issued on Monday, January 24, 2011, regarding the importability of certain shotguns. ATF informed the audience at the ATF Townhall meeting that they wanted to ensure that they were properly and justly enforcing the requirements of a shotgun being for a “sporting purpose.”


    NAZI Law:

    JPFO Firearms Sentinel Editor
    (JPFO–Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership)

    This “sporting use” strategy was used before. The Nazi Weapons Law (18 March 1938) forbade importation of weapons under substantially the same test. Section 25(1) of that Law proclaimed: “It is forbidden to manufacture … and to import: Firearms which fold-down, break-down, are collapsible, or are speedily dismantled — beyond the common limits of hunting and sporting activities — …” Section 21 of the Nazi Law (and its enforcing regulations) employed the “sporting use” exception also where they permitted licensed persons to carry “firearms, designed for — and usually used for — the hunting of fair game.”



    Link: http://www.saysuncle.com/2011/01/20/...ruling-monday/
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Hmmm...
    Keltec announces the KSG.
    I post that I doubt I will see the KSG in the near future at a reasonable price and so will most likely get a Saiga-12.
    ATF announces they intend to ban the Saiga-12.

    I smell conspiracy.
    Dang it. The wife wrapped last night's chicken with my tin foil hat.

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    When will enough be enough with these fools? Why do we lack the political will to get them to stop legislating from the clipboard? (Like judges legislating from the bench, which is generally held as being a bad thing.)

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
    Hmmm...
    Keltec announces the KSG.
    I post that I doubt I will see the KSG in the near future at a reasonable price and so will most likely get a Saiga-12.
    ATF announces they intend to ban the Saiga-12.

    I smell conspiracy.
    Dang it. The wife wrapped last night's chicken with my tin foil hat.
    Argh! It appears it's only a 2-3/4" chamber...... I like the 14+1 though.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neplusultra View Post
    Argh! It appears it's only a 2-3/4" chamber......
    I know, it's terrible. I tell you what: you buy one, and let me hang on to it. That way you won't have to live with the disappointment every day; I'll shoulder the burden.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    (from a democratic perspective)
    This law refers to the importation of such weapons, which many reliable gun manufacturers have US local plants for manufacture.

    I don't see this a a burden to the good guns since the manufacturers will build them in the US.

    Don't see you the ban will create more jobs, they'll have to hire people to build the weapons in the US.

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    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by insane.kangaroo View Post
    (from a democratic perspective)
    This law refers to the importation of such weapons, which many reliable gun manufacturers have US local plants for manufacture.

    I don't see this a a burden to the good guns since the manufacturers will build them in the US.

    Don't see you the ban will create more jobs, they'll have to hire people to build the weapons in the US.
    (from a freedom perspective)
    This would makes it more difficult and expensive for a law abiding citizen to exercise the right to keep and bear arms.

    The fact it clams to be directed at non-sporting use is meaningless. Our right is not dependent on the primary intention we have for a given firearm, be it for pheasants for tyrants.

    The idea that we should sacrifice any right, or suffer any infringement, on a right to maybe create a job makes sense only if you have no loyalty to the rights of the people to began with.



    a democratic leftist progressive statist perspective ≠ a freedom perspective
    Last edited by DontTreadOnMeVa; 01-23-2011 at 09:16 AM. Reason: fixed sentence structure

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by insane.kangaroo View Post
    (from a democratic perspective)
    This law refers to the importation of such weapons, which many reliable gun manufacturers have US local plants for manufacture.

    I don't see this a a burden to the good guns since the manufacturers will build them in the US.

    Don't see you the ban will create more jobs, they'll have to hire people to build the weapons in the US.
    Use the winking smiley face when you are being humerous kangaroo. Not everybody has a sense of humor.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    FCC to ban imported books

    Hat tip to Sharp As A Marble:

    As many people know, during the recent American Library Association national convention, the FCC released a statement declaring their intent to ban the import of specific books into the United States. The new ruling is to be similar to bans in the Weimar Republic back in the 1930’s. The law looks to target certain books based on the number of foreign words or pages in them and while not naming Manga comics directly, it has indicated that books that serve no ‘entertainment purposes’ would not be permitted into the states.

    Many publishing companies currently import books from outside the US and then replace some of the foreign words with English so that it is ‘modified’ here in the US and thus sellable at book stores everywhere. Books that do not meet specific entertainment criteria (as set forth by the FCC and not based on any public input) such as ‘crudely drawn pictures’ or ‘funny sounding words that have no inherent educational value to 3rd graders’ or possess too many foreign parts like a foreign made dust cover or spine will not be ‘banned’ per se, but unavailable to be sold, purchased, traded, or owned.

    While Freedom of Speech advocates were quick to rally against the proposed regulations, supporters of the law claim that the wide availability of books printed in the US and written in English meant that there was little chance of running afoul of the First Amendment.

    “Some of these foreign books can hold literally thousands of pages. There is no entertainment purpose for that many pages as most Americans have a hard enough time finishing a Reader’s Digest,” said one FCC official who wished to remain anonymous. “There’s just no reason for such books to be brought into the States. I, nor anyone at the FCC, can see why someone would want to read such rubbish and therefore are moving to ensure it cannot be brought in.”


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    Linked to on another forum:

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...ing-011911.pdf

    This link contains a list of the topics discussed by the ATF at the SHOT Show. Notice that there is no mention whatsoever of shotguns? It would seem that the announcement of a regulation such as this would at least be listed in their "talking Points." Hopefully, this is all just a bunch of hype.

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    Guys, this ATF "ruling" was all hype that was started by a few unethical people to raise the prices of Saiga shotguns. I heard so many rumors and most of you did to I am sure; Saigas will be made DD, they will not be imported, they will have to be registered, yadda yadda yadda. It was all crap and sure enough if you look at the current vendors for Saiga Shotguns, you will notice, they have gone up significatly in price. So I guess the rumors worked, a few unscrupulous people made a few bucks. Bully for them...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Everybody is a NAZI these days, or at least, acts like one, emulates one, "really is one," has NAZI policies, is hell-bent on being like a NAZI, doing NAZI things. I wish people would quit hanging these NAZI fear-mongering tactics over our heads everyday, accusing other people of being NAZI. Freaking NAZI wannabes. Scaring the beNAZI out of us all with NAZI accusations. Time for the NAZI dance:

    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-25-2011 at 12:20 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman80 View Post
    Guys, this ATF "ruling" was all hype...
    Perhaps some without their HUA needs to realize that when world events like this happen, fallout is usually copycat, and almost never a good thing.

    Cool heads, folks. Please.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phssthpok View Post
    Hat tip to Sharp As A Marble:




    aczarnowski says: on 1/24/2011 9:48:17 AM
    What bothers me most is that I was past the first paragraph before I starting thinking, maybe, this was satire.

    At first I kept questioning whether they were serious or sarcastic. >.>


    "They" being the person that wrote the article.
    Last edited by Jack House; 01-27-2011 at 12:03 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Everybody is a NAZI these days, or at least, acts like one, emulates one, "really is one," has NAZI policies, is hell-bent on being like a NAZI, doing NAZI things. I wish people would quit hanging these NAZI fear-mongering tactics over our heads everyday, accusing other people of being NAZI. Freaking NAZI wannabes. Scaring the beNAZI out of us all with NAZI accusations. Time for the NAZI dance:

    We will when they stop acting like Nazis.

    You have to admit there are many things that are just to similar not to infer it. But we should also include Communism, Stalinism, Maoist?

    When a free society moves toward socialism the only way you are going to get people to go along is by force and crazy laws and penalties, which is very "anti" freedom, dare I say it? "Anti American". Or by using excuses like bad economy, disasters (these aren't to be wasted you know), fear mongering (constitutionalist are "extremist"), yep both pseudo branches of the fake democratic/republican party have used all these tactics, just like Nazi's.

    Funny thing is the Nazi's (Goebbel) actually used a Jewish American writer as an inspiration and borrowed much from American Progressive movement, especially Woodrow Wilson's propaganda machine 'Committee on Public Information'.

    The one thing that has slowed Socialism and the Progessivism in this country is our supreme law of the land the constitution, too many, inalienable rights spelt out, hence why it is now taught these are to be "interpreted", and we who believe in these guiding principles are labelled extremist.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Another ironic twist to the whole Nazi propaganda thing:

    Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels was said to have read all of Edward Bernays' books, and to greatly respect Bernays ideas and utilized many of his theories in formulating the Nazi Public Relations machine.

    Edward Bernays, who was from Vienna (but later moved to the US, and Naturalized), and is considered to be the "father of Public Relations", was Jewish. (He was also Sigmund Freud's nephew...)

    So essentially, the Nazi propaganda machine was based, in theory and practice, on the theories and writings of a Jewish scholar...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-29-2011 at 05:44 PM.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Another ironic twist to the whole Nazi propaganda thing:

    Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels was said to have read all of Edward Bernays' books, and to greatly respect Bernays ideas and utilized many of his theories in formulating the Nazi Public Relations machine.

    Edward Bernays, who was from Vienna (but later moved to the US, and Naturalized), and is considered to be the "father of Public Relations", was Jewish. (He was also Sigmund Freud's nephew...)

    So essentially, the Nazi propaganda machine was based, in theory and practice, on the theories and writings of a Jewish scholar...
    It appears from what I have read(e), Hitler's gripe about Marxism was that the Jews were not applying it right...sweet jeezus!
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    We will when they stop acting like Nazis.

    You have to admit there are many things that are just to similar not to infer it. But we should also include Communism, Stalinism, Maoist?

    When a free society moves toward socialism the only way you are going to get people to go along is by force and crazy laws and penalties, which is very "anti" freedom, dare I say it? "Anti American". Or by using excuses like bad economy, disasters (these aren't to be wasted you know), fear mongering (constitutionalist are "extremist"), yep both pseudo branches of the fake democratic/republican party have used all these tactics, just like Nazi's.

    Funny thing is the Nazi's (Goebbel) actually used a Jewish American writer as an inspiration and borrowed much from American Progressive movement, especially Woodrow Wilson's propaganda machine 'Committee on Public Information'.

    The one thing that has slowed Socialism and the Progessivism in this country is our supreme law of the land the constitution, too many, inalienable rights spelt out, hence why it is now taught these are to be "interpreted", and we who believe in these guiding principles are labelled extremist.
    Stalinist, and Maoist governance is an extreme example of Communism and Socialism, don't you think? You act as if Communism and Socialism are the reason Stalin or Mao slaughtered millions of people...it isn't. There was an ideological stance that led to a political philosophy which led to using the tool (Communism, Socialism) to carry out whatever agenda they had. There are plenty of Socialist countries that are good to its people, and not slaughtering its own people or committing genocide.

    There are fake Democrats, and fake Republicans? Seriously! I suppose there are also fake freedom fighters, and fake Americans too.

    The Constitution is inherently interpretive (this was already discussed a while back, and a number of times). The Constitution is an affirmation of fundamental rights (PERIOD). But, in application, it is interpretive by SCOTUS, and can be altered by Congress, and both avenues are completely Constitutional, and fall within Constitutional powers.

    Heck, let's just say for poops and giggles Congress wanted to drop the Second Amendment to the Constitution, they can, and it would be Constitutional (I am sure if I am wrong, someone with refute this).

    Article V:

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-30-2011 at 11:00 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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