Why keep a magazine in your pistol when OC'ing

mjones · Jan 23, 2011

MikeJ said:
So you want to give the appearance of your weapon being loaded. So if you get black holed and cuffed by a police officer you don't have a problem with that?

I think it would be reasonable for a police to assume it would be loaded with a mag inserted. No rights would be violated and you would be released after being detained and the weapon checked.

I think it's another thing you can do to cause a confrontation with law enforcement.

You already pointed out that a handgun which uses a magazine is capable of being loaded regardless of whether or not there is a magazine in it. So ultimately that makes the magazine a completely moot point with regar to whether or not someone thinks its loaded.

I completely disagree with you that you seem to think the simple presence of a gun, loaded or not, is evidence of a crime.

I've been OCing in suburban California for 20 years - Knock on wood I've never once been e-checked. Did all those cops over all those years get it wrong?

Gooelf · Jan 23, 2011

I do not disagree that 12031 is flawed and unconstitutional; however, it is law in california in the view of politicians and officers. So as long as it is not overturned and the executive branch decides they are still going to enforce it, carrying a gun that appears loaded is reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed since as it stands carrying a gun loaded in California is a crime whether we like it or not. Still, I think we all can agree it shouldn't be considered that way.

This is in no way an attempt to justify 12031(e) or an advocation of gun control, nor do I mean to imply that these searches are in anyway constitutional I am just pointing out a view point.

mjones · Jan 23, 2011

Gooelf said:
... carrying a gun that appears loaded is reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed since as it stands carrying a gun loaded in California is a crime whether we like it or not.

Driving with a dead hooker in your trunk is illegal. Driving a car doesn't mean you're Jack the Ripper.

Why is it unreasonable to search for dead hookers but its ok to search for a cartridge in a gun?!?

CenTex · Jan 23, 2011

Gooelf said:
I do not disagree that 12031 is flawed and unconstitutional; however, it is law in california in the view of politicians and officers. So as long as it is not overturned and the executive branch decides they are still going to enforce it, carrying a gun that appears loaded is reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed since as it stands carrying a gun loaded in California is a crime whether we like it or not. Still, I think we all can agree it shouldn't be considered that way.

This is in no way an attempt to justify 12031(e) or an advocation of gun control, nor do I mean to imply that these searches are in anyway constitutional I am just pointing out a view point.

If it were true that what "appears" to be a loaded gun is RAS that a crime is being committed since, as you state, it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in California, then every last OCer who carries a loaded firearm would be arrested and dragged off to jail. However, as it stands, it is not illegal to have a loaded firearm in exempt areas of the state of California.

Law-abiding OCers do not carry loaded firearms for the very reason they would be arrested for illegally carrying in restricted areas. Those law-abiding OCers who do carry loaded firearms, do so legally.

Pace · Jan 23, 2011

Who cares. Really, I am going back to my argument that while common law, the intention of the founding fathers is a nice discussion, who cares. Each founding father has his own opinions about everything, they had huge differences in opinions. What they thought, what they wrote, isn't the law.

The law of the land is simple: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That means even if we found tomorrow that Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and the rest o'the gang wrote somewhere secret that they really didn't agree with it, that it doesn't matter. The Law of the Land, the Law of this Country says it simple, period.

VW_Factor said:
Federalist Papers..

There is ZERO question about what our Constitution holds in meaning. Its all there, in writing what our founding fathers meant.

Carry on.

Pace · Jan 23, 2011

Just please don't OC with the dead hooker in the car, gives us a bad name.

mjones said:
Driving with a dead hooker in your trunk is illegal. Driving a car doesn't mean you're Jack the Ripper.

Why is it unreasonable to search for dead hookers but its ok to search for a cartridge in a gun?!?

Robin47 · Jan 23, 2011

MikeJ said:
The supreme court defines what the our rights are all the time. They determine the spirit of the law/constitution and how it should be applied.

Well this determination is now for all judges in their court room being able to
deny what you thought "were" your Constitutional rights.
As usual it now depends on the judge you get.

Sad but true now, law by decree ! Robin47

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=xprnw.20110118.CL31921&show_article=1

leoffensive · Jan 23, 2011

i carry with a mag in the mag well just to troll

LOLOLOLOLOL

mjones · Jan 23, 2011

Pace said:
Just please don't OC with the dead hooker in the car, gives us a bad name.

Only on Thursdays in March...

xnetc9 · Jan 24, 2011

i always keep an empty mag in the gun.

1. illusion that the gun is loaded. bad because cops will ALWAYS draw their gun at you in Orange County but also makes bad guys think it is loaded.
2. keeps dust and debris out of the gun.

regardless, cops will draw weapons on no matter if you had a mag or not in the gun. they will assume there's a round in the gun and will draw their weapon on you. they do this because they don't get much action here in orange county. hunting down UOC is one of the best actions these cops get.

Adler · Jan 24, 2011

MikeJ said:
It looks bad and it makes it appear that the gun could be loaded. We all know without a magazine you can still have one in the chamber but it also puts you behind the curve if you would need to load your weapon because now you need to drop the mag. I just saw it in a video and didn't understand it.

If it's because your trying to keep the mag well clean or just because you can I still don't think it's a good idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHvk0vY6fwk

HI my name is Ali and I join the forum earlier. Wanted to know about the forum and also why to carry openly is mandatory.....???

1245A Defender · Jan 24, 2011

hi and welcome,,,

california is alot like new york.
permits to carry concealed are almost impossible to get.
in calif law you cannot carry a concealed or loaded gun, without a permit,
so you can open carry an unloaded gun by 12031E, and cops can check that its unloaded.
the law veries in different parts of the state, and in cities, much study is needed.
especially in GFSZ 626.9.
new york also has different laws in rural areas and cities, especially in NYC!
study your state forum, there are some ways to carry in NY, even in NYC.
i think in some rural areas you can get a permit, and even open carry loaded.

ronmanci · Feb 2, 2011

are you allowed to carry a loaded mag anywhere on your body? is so, more than one?

ronmanci · Feb 2, 2011

1245A Defender said:
california is alot like new york.
permits to carry concealed are almost impossible to get.
in calif law you cannot carry a concealed or loaded gun, without a permit,
so you can open carry an unloaded gun by 12031E, and cops can check that its unloaded.
the law veries in different parts of the state, and in cities, much study is needed.
especially in GFSZ 626.9.
new york also has different laws in rural areas and cities, especially in NYC!
study your state forum, there are some ways to carry in NY, even in NYC.
i think in some rural areas you can get a permit, and even open carry loaded.

There is no open carry anywhere in NYS. Permits are fairly easy to get, besides the process itself. It is not possible to get a permit in NYC. Your not even allowed to keep a shotgun in your home in NYC. But besides the 5 bouroughs of NYC, the state gun laws are the same everywhere else. Some county do have different types of permits. some offer a hunting, some offer a home use, and some only offer carry. Some offer all three.

Iopencarry · Feb 2, 2011

ronmanci said:
are you allowed to carry a loaded mag anywhere on your body? is so, more than one?

you are allowed to carry loaded mags EXPOSED, as many as you want. most just carry 2. That gives 20 rounds.

if that isn't enough, you'd be dead anyway. While we all would like to defeat/repeal the 10 round mag law, for now, that is what we have to deal with. (unless, the standard mags are pre-ban)

ronmanci · Feb 2, 2011

Iopencarry said:
you are allowed to carry loaded mags EXPOSED, as many as you want. most just carry 2. That gives 20 rounds.

if that isn't enough, you'd be dead anyway. While we all would like to defeat/repeal the 10 round mag law, for now, that is what we have to deal with. (unless, the standard mags are pre-ban)

10 round max in NYS also.

Mike Hawk · Feb 3, 2011

I WANT your average street thug/gangbanger/****head to assume it's loaded & ready. But as for LEOs, I expect them to obey their oath, first and foremost, to the Constitution and BoR. POST training, "departmental policy", etc should be a distant second. Loaded or not should be irrelevant to a LEO, absent some other offense. Because we DO have the RIGHT to carry a functional firearm.

In short, we have already been somewhat declawed (carrying around UNLOADED guns). This is both demoralizing and degrading. But to give an inch further than we have to at this point is the equivalent of peeing and exposing our bellies to our masters. **** that!

1245A Defender · Feb 3, 2011

well,,,

12031E causes more threat to the safety of lawfully armed citizens.
in the belief that openly carried guns have been neutered by a stupid law.
the wrong people should not learn about the legal way to carry in california.

619P95 · Feb 5, 2011

MikeJ said:
I guess I just look back to my day in the marines. If it has a mag in it it's seen and seen as being loaded until proven otherwise. I think that's not an uncommon view.

whatever happened to the old adage about treating EVERY gun as loaded until YOU verify that it is not...

weather it has a mag in it or not.

Why keep a magazine in your pistol when OC'ing

mjones

Regular Member

Gooelf

Regular Member

mjones

Regular Member

CenTex

Regular Member

Pace

Regular Member

Pace

Regular Member

Robin47

Regular Member

leoffensive

Regular Member

mjones

Regular Member

xnetc9

Regular Member

Adler

Guest

1245A Defender

Regular Member

ronmanci

Regular Member

ronmanci

Regular Member

Iopencarry

Regular Member

ronmanci

Regular Member

Mike Hawk

New member

1245A Defender

Regular Member

619P95

Regular Member