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Thread: Open carry Indemnification / Insurance for Missouri?

  1. #1
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    Open carry Indemnification / Insurance for Missouri?

    Open carry Indemnification / Insurance for Missouri?


    As you may know with the cost of legal representation that if the authorities want to hassle you open carrying that it can be cost prohibitive for many of us to defend against any charge that they want to drum up. Many times our only option is to cop a plea.

    I would like to see the tables turned and see if there is an interest in a mutual self defense legal fund. Instead of you and I being in trouble, we get justice for a change with the cop violating your rights and the Constitution would instead find his home, job, and pension in jeopardy due to civil and criminal actions taken by us.

    Other groups have taken this path with great success. Home schoolers had and still have legal defense funds. Those selling raw milk in part of Missouri also have a similar deal with attorneys on retainer. I heard that Open Carry in Georgia has implemented this concept already.

    Why not do the same thing here in Missouri? I would love to hear the thoughts of those that would be serious about implementing something here.

    TIA
    Joe

  2. #2
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    I didn't look up the link, but I know the NRA offers that insurance, fairly affordable if you think you need/want it.

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    That could be a very good idea!

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    yah. but before we get sonmething like that implemented. we really need a organized group to handle it. i doubt anyone really going to donate their hard earned money to just a couple random people. besides a hand full of people on here. there not that many dedicated to this. and then you take the handful of people who are serious, you lose half of them due to them being busy on their outside life.

    i guess i feel like thats going to not work out unless you have a pretty good group set up, and that should be your first step, then move to the insurance.

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    We have to be careful here. The Fed would love to force firearm owners to purchase insurance coverage, knowing full well that it would only restrict the law abiding and would be so expensive that the cheap-shooter would no longer be able to afford to shoot. Would you want to be forced to show proof of insurance when you file a Form 4473 and be told that private sales are now illegal in the US due to mandated insurance requirements for firearm ownership?

    NRA insurance only covers you if something happens resulting in a discharge. It has nothing to do with LEO encounters at all. As an instructor, I'm not even sure if it's available to the general public, but they offer instructors a policy (we pay for it) that covers us in the classroom, at the range, and outside the classroom. Personally, it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to offer it to the general public that choose to carry.

    The NRA also has a legal defense fund set up only for cases the NRA wants to get involved in. It's inaccessible otherwise.

    The best insurance policy you can have for a LEO encounter is to be sure you know your rights, know the laws that apply to carrying a firearm, and record EVERYTHING from start to finish of a LEO encounter. Remember, everything is on the record with them and it's admissable in court against you, even if it's for an unrelated case. Nothing a LEO says is admissable in court unless it's recorded...it's deemed hearsay if it's not recorded and don't rely on those dash-cams or the LEOs personal recorders as those have an interesting way of disappearing.

    Please consider this one important point. LEOs are required to pass a polygraph test, the claim being it will tell investigators if they are lying (honesty, and no it doesn't actually prove that someone is lying, it never has) and can be a disqualifying criteria for a LEO position. Yet the Supreme Court has ruled that LEOs can lie as much as they need to during an investigation to obtain information, evidence, and confessions. This is why it is vital that you learn to record LEO encounters for YOUR protection.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 01-24-2011 at 11:24 AM.

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    now a days theres insurance for everything. it doesnt mean you should buy it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goalseter88 View Post
    yah. but before we get something like that implemented. we really need a organized group to handle it. i doubt anyone really going to donate their hard earned money to just a couple random people. besides a hand full of people on here. there not that many dedicated to this. and then you take the handful of people who are serious, you lose half of them due to them being busy on their outside life.

    i guess i feel like thats going to not work out unless you have a pretty good group set up, and that should be your first step, then move to the insurance.
    I'm pretty sure anyone can buy the insurance you are speaking of. In the 1990's I carried a concealed firearm (as a citizen who had a specialty permit (don't ask)) here in Missouri. I was required to carry a 1 million $ Bond for liability due to carrying a firearm. Is I remember it was $500 a year.

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    I'm pretty sure anyone can buy the insurance you are speaking of. In the 1990's I carried a concealed firearm (as a citizen who had a specialty permit (don't ask)) here in Missouri. I was required to carry a 1 million $ Bond for liability due to carrying a firearm. Is I remember it was $500 a year.

    Doc
    yah i know there insurance for individuals. but when he said he wanted to start a fund. i took it he not talking about starting his own insurance for himself. but as the word fund normally is used. as a group puts into this legal fund. and would be there for whoever needs legal representation. which is different then someone buying themself their own insurance. and thats what i was refering to. if its going to not just be individual insurance, then you would need a organized group to manage this "fund"

    but i might of misread what he meant. mabye he did mean individual insurance. if so my bad.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    We have to be careful here. The Fed would love to force firearm owners to purchase insurance coverage, knowing full well that it would only restrict the law abiding and would be so expensive that the cheap-shooter would no longer be able to afford to shoot. Would you want to be forced to show proof of insurance when you file a Form 4473 and be told that private sales are now illegal in the US due to mandated insurance requirements for firearm ownership?
    First, i dont see that happening. and if it does happen, its not going to be b/c someone chose to buy it on their own free will. Second, your really going to advise someone not to get insurance just in fear that it will get the goverment to force insurance? I think any good instructor would be for someone getting insurance if they feel better having it. I mean it cant hurt them to have it(besides the money they lose to pay for the insurance), and that fear of yours is a lot less likely then the chance of them needing the insurance. have you turned down your own NRA insurance for the same reason as to this insurance, dont you think that the goverment would love to force instructors to have to have insurance? That whole ideology of telling people to not get insurance in fear that it will become mandatory is odd to me, especially when you got a similiar insurance.
    Last edited by goalseter88; 01-24-2011 at 07:52 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    I don't know how well this would go over. It is a good idea in theory but I kind of have to agree with what goal said; moreover, the MO open carry groups may be pretty active but we aren't exactly large. A project like this would require large scale participation to make it affordable and seeing as we are already small in number, the number of participants would be even fewer. There is also something to say about the majority of law abiding intelligent OCers, we take our time to research and know we are in the legal right and we would probably never need this. Effectively, it would only serve less responsible individuals.
    Last edited by ChiangShih; 01-25-2011 at 12:21 AM.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

  11. #11
    McX
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    damn shame that the world has gotten so that law abiding citizens have to band together, and set up programs, organizations, and funds to protect them from the law breaking public servants that are supposed to uphold the laws.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Not insurance, but a charitable donation to a legal defense fund. If a OCer has a LEO encounter that is obviously illegal under the law and clearly documented then the fund would pay basic legal costs. Not any fines or monetary compensation for time and effort only for the lawyer. Let the affected use the civil court system to get his money back from the "state" after it is proven that the LEO broke the law. Set it up as a charitable organization under the tax code and all donations possibly could be tax deductible.
    ok, so i did read it right. but your first question i still believe should be. who going to run this charitable donation? and how are you going to prove to people who are donating, that whoever running it wont run off with the money etc.

    and ChiangShih, brought up a good point. most likely who will need it, is someone who just randomly OC without looking into it. not someone on here or the people who are donating that have actually looked it up before actually OCing.

    and who going to decide if were going to help on the lawyer or not. i mean someone going to have to make the choice on do we step in on this case or not.

    these are the things you need figured out before you can start a fund. and in my opionion, would only be possible to figure out with a dedicated group. which is not even addressed in your talk about making this fund.

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