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Thread: Police Stations

  1. #1
    Regular Member Vmaxx's Avatar
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    Police Stations

    I've got a question in regards to the lobby's at the police stations. In the past I've visited my local station & the chief has asked me to come back to his office. I know the lobby is open to the public (open carry) but his office is behind locked door. Now does it make any difference if he asked me to come back, do i need to tell him I'm open carrying? I really don't think he'd be setting me up for anything but I'd like to have the knowledge before hand. I must say that all my dealings with the Swartz Creek Dept have all been extremely positive in the past. So much so that the chief has even come back to the station (leaving the diner table) because he forgot our appointment.
    Last edited by Vmaxx; 01-22-2011 at 09:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    If you are asked back you have his permission. But there in no firearm law you would be breaking by OCing anywhere in a PD (other than a jail, etc.).
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    If you are asked back you have his permission. But there in no firearm law you would be breaking by OCing anywhere in a PD (other than a jail, etc.).
    This is my opinion also. The only areas you may not OC in are "SECURED AREAS" now this is where the wiggling starts. Some PD's claim every inch of the building is secure. It often takes a quick comment like "well the doors were not locked and there are no signs saying that the lobby is a secured area." to get them to start thinking about how silly what they are saying actually is. It sounds like you have a good PD and I am envious of you on that account

    See the example of police acting foolish about their lobby below. In the end they lost and were forced to obey the law.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh8Xc_cteO8
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 01-23-2011 at 01:18 AM.

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    Police Station Lobbies

    Just a question for my own reference. Where in any of the Michigan statutes does it say the we can't CC in a police station lobby? Or does it fall under the Federal statutes? Thank you in advance.

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    Last edited by lapeer20m; 02-16-2011 at 09:04 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Thanks Lapeer

    Thanks Lapeer. That's what I thought, and I could not find it anywhere saying differently. And technically, even in other parts of a police station it is ok to carry open or concealed, Right? I just looked at the statute MCL 750.234d, MCL 28.425o, and Administrative Order 2001-1 and could not find anything that says we can't. Not that I am going to test it, but I have gone into other parts of my local PD upon invitation.

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    You can carry in a police station. Don't have the mindset that you are "testing" or even "trying" anything though, that's just the wrong way to look at things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    You can carry in a police station. Don't have the mindset that you are "testing" or even "trying" anything though, that's just the wrong way to look at things.
    No, I would not do anything like that. Just confirming about carrying in a PD. Thanks for the input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vmaxx View Post
    do i need to tell him I'm open carrying?
    I don't think you need to TELL anyone you are open carrying. If they can't SEE a gun in a holster on your hip, then it's their problem, not yours.

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    I Agree with stainless1911, in that, Open Carry of a Firearm in a [OMIT] Public Safety Building is LEGAL in Michigan.

    [OMIT]
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-23-2011 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    I Agree with stainless1911, in that, Open Carry of a Firearm in a Local Public Safety Building is LEGAL in Michigan, however; The Michigan State Police Public Safety Buildings and Complexes is ILLEGAL.

    The Problem Rests in The Fact that Public Act 319 of 1990 ONLY Addresses Local Units, NOT State Units.
    Not true It' not illegal to carry in the New MSP HQ building or any MSP post. I have been in contact with them and received this from Major Bush He has not cited any law for their sign. But you can see from his response they want to play games and keep the signs up anyway, yet gives no lawful citation to ban firearms. I just sent a reminder to him asking for the cite.

    I encourage you to ask/email Major Bush where they get their authority to regulate firearm possession in any area of a post or other state building used by the MSP.

    Charles Bush Bushce@michigan.gov
    dateMon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:52 PM
    subjectRE: Weapons ban sign on door of MSP HQ building
    12/20/10

    Dear Mr. Jeffs,

    I am following up on the email you sent to Colonel Eddie Washington regarding
    a notice posted at various MSP facilities.

    In Michigan, it is legal for a person to carry a firearm in public as long as the person is carrying the firearm with lawful intent and the firearm is not concealed. Carrying a non-concealed visible firearm is commonly referred to as open carry.

    In general, citizens who come into Michigan State Police work sites to conduct business (e.g., file a complaint, obtain an accident report, etc.) are not prohibited from openly carrying a holstered firearm in areas where public access is not restricted such as the lobby areas. Citizens may be prohibited from openly carrying a firearm in restricted areas of work sites. Before allowing a citizen to enter restricted areas of the work site, members may ask a citizen to secure the firearm outside of the work site. If a citizen refuses to secure the firearm outside the work site, the member shall deny the person access.

    The signs, which will remain posted at department work sites, allow the citizen the opportunity to secure their firearms prior to entering the work site to conduct business. There is no Michigan statute which prohibits the posting of the signs.

    Major Charles Bush, Commander
    Michigan State Police
    Office of Emergency and Specialized Services
    517-241-0246
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
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    So we need a law that prohibits them from posting signs that are either unenforceable misleading, or are in contrast with state law.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Not true It' not illegal to carry in the New MSP HQ building or any MSP post. I have been in contact with them and received this from Major Bush He has not cited any law for their sign. But you can see from his response they want to play games and keep the signs up anyway, yet gives no lawful citation to ban firearms. I just sent a reminder to him asking for the cite.

    I encourage you to ask/email Major Bush where they get their authority to regulate firearm possession in any area of a post or other state building used by the MSP.

    Charles Bush Bushce@michigan.gov
    dateMon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:52 PM
    subjectRE: Weapons ban sign on door of MSP HQ building
    12/20/10

    Dear Mr. Jeffs,

    I am following up on the email you sent to Colonel Eddie Washington regarding
    a notice posted at various MSP facilities.

    In Michigan, it is legal for a person to carry a firearm in public as long as the person is carrying the firearm with lawful intent and the firearm is not concealed. Carrying a non-concealed visible firearm is commonly referred to as open carry.

    In general, citizens who come into Michigan State Police work sites to conduct business (e.g., file a complaint, obtain an accident report, etc.) are not prohibited from openly carrying a holstered firearm in areas where public access is not restricted such as the lobby areas. Citizens may be prohibited from openly carrying a firearm in restricted areas of work sites. Before allowing a citizen to enter restricted areas of the work site, members may ask a citizen to secure the firearm outside of the work site. If a citizen refuses to secure the firearm outside the work site, the member shall deny the person access.

    The signs, which will remain posted at department work sites, allow the citizen the opportunity to secure their firearms prior to entering the work site to conduct business. There is no Michigan statute which prohibits the posting of the signs.

    Major Charles Bush, Commander
    Michigan State Police
    Office of Emergency and Specialized Services
    517-241-0246
    yep, it's perfectly legal for the police to lie to you as well. nice that this commander is man enough to admit that they are lying.
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    Previous Thread PARTIALLY DELETED, in Light of aforementioned Referenced Letter as Posted by Venator.

    Add the following under Michigan Government Code 123.1100:
    'Sign' means any Device or Instrument that is Displayed in a Prominant Location at The Normal Entrances to any Facility that Details: Instructions, Policies, Rules, or Regulations; concerning The: Instructions, Policies, Rules, or Regulations; for The Lawful Entry onto such Property, whether it is Public Property or Private Property.

    Add the following under Michigan Government Code 123.1103:
    (c) A Local Government may Place a Sign that concerns The Subject-matter of Pistols or other Firearms, Ammunition for Pistols or other Firearms, or Components for Pistols or other Firearms, on any Public Property, BUT, such Sign SHALL Cite The Specific Michigan Code whereby Authorizing The Validity of any: Instructions, Policies, Rules, or Regulations; provided, further, that, if such: Instructions, Policies, Rules, or Regulations; are Invalid as Opposed to, or otherwise Stricter than, State Law, then, such: Instructions, Policies, Rules, or Regulations; of said Sign, shall have NO Force or Effect of Law, and are hereby Declared Null and Void.
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-23-2011 at 05:36 PM.

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Firearm possession period wont be allowed in a police station after an incident like this. Two LEOs shot in Detroit's Six Precinct breaking News.


    http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...nside-precinct
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

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    Preemption still applies.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    Firearm possession period wont be allowed in a police station after an incident like this. Two LEOs shot in Detroit's Six Precinct breaking News.


    http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...nside-precinct

    This was a CRIMINAL, not a law abiding citizen. Also thank GOD he was a terrible shot - as he managed not to inflict one critical/fatal wound while using a shotgun at close range. I think this will blow over soon as this was obviously another nut job in action. Now imagine what the look on his face would of been if he walked through the doors and was standing in a crowd of open carriers waiting for service? I bet there would be no a need for a trial in that scenario.

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    Suicide by cop.

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    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    I noticed in the Monroe county Sheriff building a sign says no cc allowed but it dont says anything aqbout oced I think

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    I open carried at my sheriff's department—and the city police department... even down in the communications center. Granted, I was a LEO

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    I open carried at my sheriff's department—and the city police department... even down in the communications center. Granted, I was a LEO
    OK, that was good. You actually had me going right up until the last sentence.

  22. #22
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I have open carried in a few Detroit Precincts, Southfield PD, Oak Park PD (had an argument and won, no big deal), Michigan State Police Oak Park Post (had an argument, agreed to disagree, was working and had to leave anyways), Ferndale PD, Hazel Park PD, Warren PD, Clawson PD, Troy PD, and Royal Oak PD. I only had issues at the two in Oak Park (city and state) and explained those above.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    I noticed in the Monroe county Sheriff building a sign says no cc allowed but it dont says anything aqbout oced I think
    I think you are correct, i think it says something no loaded concealed weapons beyond this point or something like that

    Also take note, that the sheriffs building is "connected" by a covered walk way on the second floor to the court house
    Last edited by Onnie; 01-23-2011 at 11:37 PM.
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    Waterford and Auburn Hills no issues

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    I have open carried in a few Detroit Precincts, Southfield PD, Oak Park PD (had an argument and won, no big deal), Michigan State Police Oak Park Post (had an argument, agreed to disagree, was working and had to leave anyways), Ferndale PD, Hazel Park PD, Warren PD, Clawson PD, Troy PD, and Royal Oak PD. I only had issues at the two in Oak Park (city and state) and explained those above.
    Well know you can show the MSP post the email from their Major.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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