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Thread: Auto Show

  1. #1
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    Auto Show

    Anyone go? Were there metal detectors? I'm planning on going tomorrow, concealed. But if there are detectors, I may have an issue.

    This thread is from last year, for reference: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...oit-Auto-Show&

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    As discussed in your linked thread, it is a CEZ, and as such concealed carry cannot be recommended unless you are okay with violating the law, and this is something I would advise particular caution about to any activist who is probably already under the watchful eye of big brother. Even if you don't consider the arena part of the hall, remember that the seating capacity of cobo hall's classrooms far exceeds 2500.

    I would almost never ever tell a good person not to carry, and this case is no exception. Just remember the overall quality of their court system, as demonstrated by theszerdi's case. They seem like they care less in court about determining the validity of SD shootings than prosecuting someone following all laws. So going there actually violating the law in a manner that would annoy them, it is something that requires extreme caution and consideration.

    Regardless of what you do, I don't think you'll encounter metal detectors there. I carried a big folding fighting knife to the SAE congress in 2009, in the pocket of my suit.

    I think there were signs that said "all persons subject to visual search" or some nonsense like that. I think they said bags were also subject to physical search, though no one I remember was carrying any. It was such a formal event that it didn't seem like they wanted to search anyone, though the auto show is certainly far less formal, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if they do some pat downs or something.

    OC is the only for sure legal carry there, and it seems like it should be the next AB&E issue. Though I must say, just like with AB&E, there is no way in hell I'd want to OC there.
    Last edited by Michigander; 01-23-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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    Last edited by lapeer20m; 02-16-2011 at 09:04 PM.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    IMOP under the law it is NOT a PFZ. Also they are not searching anyone this year.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    i wouldn't chance it. too much media and would of course be slanted against carry of any kind. i CC there a few years ago and was in line to go in with my elderly father and uncle and was looking at guards with wands on both sides waving a few people here and there. i did what you are NOT supposed to do - i stopped. my dad and uncle went in. told them i had to go back to the car. they didn't hear me and i rushed past security to tell them. i was in and they didn't follow. *whew*
    i don't know what it is about me but i am a frequent victim of 'selective' security checks. airports for sure. in heathrow airport london i was 'selected' for a pretty invasive PUBLIC check of my clothing. at a george bush speech at occ in farmington i had to go thru a secret service checkpoint to get in. i watched the flow of people going thru and thought i knew what to expect. when i got up there it was a whole different thing. i did have a pair of camo shorts on but i'm not sure if that was it. had a fanny pack opened and dumped out. had to remove my sweatshirt and lift up my shirt. hands on wall pat down and pockets turned out. i didn't say anything and was cleared. maybe i match some description. maybe lone white male syndrome. when i was LEO i got stopped by a lieutenant walking down a hall and he said "i don't know what it is about you but you always look like you just did something wrong, are about to do something wrong, or involved in just, just..something illegal". maybe thats it.
    anyway you are probably already there now. let us know what you did and how it went. have the news on and didn't see anything.

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    in three-ish months of being there... i have not seen a metal detector (not even a wand). a lot of people CC there, but i have not seen an OCer. so many kinds of LEOs are there, you would not believe it (michigan state police, regular detroit police, bomb squad, ATF...).

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    If someone does this, please remember a video camera. A concealed camera is advisable.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    i wouldn't chance it. too much media and would of course be slanted against carry of any kind. i CC there a few years ago and was in line to go in with my elderly father and uncle and was looking at guards with wands on both sides waving a few people here and there. i did what you are NOT supposed to do - i stopped. my dad and uncle went in. told them i had to go back to the car. they didn't hear me and i rushed past security to tell them. i was in and they didn't follow. *whew*
    i don't know what it is about me but i am a frequent victim of 'selective' security checks. airports for sure. in heathrow airport london i was 'selected' for a pretty invasive PUBLIC check of my clothing. at a george bush speech at occ in farmington i had to go thru a secret service checkpoint to get in. i watched the flow of people going thru and thought i knew what to expect. when i got up there it was a whole different thing. i did have a pair of camo shorts on but i'm not sure if that was it. had a fanny pack opened and dumped out. had to remove my sweatshirt and lift up my shirt. hands on wall pat down and pockets turned out. i didn't say anything and was cleared. maybe i match some description. maybe lone white male syndrome. when i was LEO i got stopped by a lieutenant walking down a hall and he said "i don't know what it is about you but you always look like you just did something wrong, are about to do something wrong, or involved in just, just..something illegal". maybe thats it.
    anyway you are probably already there now. let us know what you did and how it went. have the news on and didn't see anything.
    Its that big red "S" on your chest, if I were a cop I would certainly detain you until I "knew" you were not the evil version. Flying around downtown dosen't help either.


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    I decided to conceal carry there since I don't believe it's possible to consider this an entertainment facility- it's very clearly defined as a conference / exhibition center on their website. If it is an entertainment facility, it doesn't have 2500+ seating capacity (even if you count all the folding chairs in the basement and small food shops with eating areas in the lobby). It's also not a sports arena (that's Cobo Arena). So I didn't feel this was a PFZ. The worst they could legally do is tell me to leave and then have me arrested for trespassing if I didn't. My email to MSP double-checking with them went unanswered.

    I deep concealed in my new SmartCarry holster, wearing a tshirt tucked in my jeans and a fleece. Security there made no attempt to search me or my camera bag. No metal detectors or wands. No waste band checks. There was a bomb sniffing dog there, but he was sleeping (are they even alerted by the smell of gun powder, I dunno- I wasn't concerned).

    Of all places to be in during a rampage / robbery / etc..., I think the Auto Show would be the best. Cops with guns everywhere. A few dogs. Lots of cars to provide cover. And I had my gun with me. I didn't feel unsafe inside, I felt unsafe walking to and from my car. But having my little LCP resting on top of my wedding vegetables gave me some confidence.

    BTW: I can't recommend this SmartCarry enough for those looking for a deep concealment holster. It matches my Crossbreed in comfort. The only downside is draw. With a more traditional IWB/OWB holster, your draw is pretty much consistent each time. But this is more like a pocket holster- my draw is very inconsistent each time since I really don't know what kind of grasp I will have on the grip until I reach in and find out. But I find the draw to be much easier and faster than a pocket holster.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    glad it went well

    I could not be paid enough to visit that place......

    from their web site

    "Reigning as one of Michigan's finest event sites, Cobo Arena has entertained national and international audiences for more than four decades. An intimate 12,191-seat building with superb acoustics, Cobo is known to harbor the greatest rock 'n' roll audiences in the world. Please see below for a listing of important contact information as well as...."
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    ..., I think the Auto Show would be the best. Cops with guns everywhere. A few dogs. Lots of cars to provide cover……….

    Non-armored vehicles are not cover. They are concealment.

  12. #12
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsf View Post
    Non-armored vehicles are not cover. They are concealment.
    Makes me think of the Buick of Truth!

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsf View Post
    Non-armored vehicles are not cover. They are concealment.
    I wouldn't seek cover behind a door, I would seek cover behind an engine compartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post

    from their web site

    "Reigning as one of Michigan's finest event sites, Cobo Arena has entertained national and international audiences for more than four decades. An intimate 12,191-seat building with superb acoustics, Cobo is known to harbor the greatest rock 'n' roll audiences in the world. Please see below for a listing of important contact information as well as...."
    That's Cobo Arena. NAIAS is not held in Cobo Arena.

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    Last edited by lapeer20m; 02-16-2011 at 09:04 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

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  15. #15
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    I wouldn't seek cover behind a door, I would seek cover behind an engine compartment.



    That's Cobo Arena. NAIAS is not held in Cobo Arena.
    same building?

    dont know off hand, ive not been there since early 90 and have zero plans of ever going in that building again
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Cobo Arena is adjacent to Cobo Center, but they are not the same facility. Cobo Arena is soon going to be demolished and Cobo Center will expand to take over where the Arena is.

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Cobo Arena is adjacent to Cobo Center, but they are not the same facility. Cobo Arena is soon going to be demolished and Cobo Center will expand to take over where the Arena is.

    Correct in fact COBO arena is connected to the COBO Center but the tunnel has been condemned and is bricked up.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I'd have thought it was an entertainment facility, personally. I don't disagree with these other assessments, though I still wouldn't want to have to try to convince a judge, so I'm not doing it personally, nor will I suggest to others that they do so. But again, I don't dispute what everyone else is saying. Just seems like a sorta gray area. Too gray for me anyway.

    Theq, last I was there they weren't allowing pictures to be taken. My spy pen and I got some good video anyway.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    I decided to conceal carry there since I don't believe it's possible to consider this an entertainment facility- it's very clearly defined as a conference / exhibition center on their website. If it is an entertainment facility, it doesn't have 2500+ seating capacity (even if you count all the folding chairs in the basement and small food shops with eating areas in the lobby).
    Again, the seating capacity of their classrooms far exceeds 2500, and they often use them for entertainment/seminars. You could maybe try and argue that they are all separate, and/or that it's not an entertainment facility. But I wouldn't want to go to court with my attorney planning to use that as a defense.
    Last edited by Michigander; 01-25-2011 at 08:45 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Anyone go? Were there metal detectors? I'm planning on going tomorrow, concealed. But if there are detectors, I may have an issue.

    This thread is from last year, for reference: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...oit-Auto-Show&
    maybe they'll just give you a TSA nad grope.

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