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Thread: In Virginia, high-yield clip seizures rise

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    In Virginia, high-yield clip seizures rise

    From Washington Post:

    "More than 15,000 guns equipped with high-capacity magazines - defined under the lapsed federal law as holding 11 or more bullets - have been seized by Virginia police in a wide range of investigations since 1993, the data show.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2011012300277




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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    like most articles, this uses a lot of miss leading stats. it talks about how many guns with hc clips were confiscated since the bogus assault weapons band was lifted. it did not say how many of theses were used in a crime, nor what percentage of these were of the total sales. also, there was no mention of crime stats. during the same time. way down in the article, it did let pro forces point out that the anti's could not point out the effectiveness of the band.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Virginia already has a high capacity magazine posession ban. It is called the assault weapon ban.

    It would be interesting to see what percentage of the violent crime arrests included a charge for violation of the assault weapons ban. This would give us an idea of how rampant the use of "high capacity" magazines is in violent crime.

    The feeble attempt at using statistics by the WaPo should not be minimized. We should develop better and more reasoned statistics.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Virginia already has a high capacity magazine posession ban. It is called the assault weapon ban.
    A ban? All I was aware of is that there's still a definition of "assault weapon" - a firearm with a greater than 20 round magazine, a folding stock, and/or threaded barrel - for which you have to provide proof of citizenship (when purchasing from an FFL).

    I've never had any problem buying a high-capacity magazine alone, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    It would be interesting to see what percentage of the violent crime arrests included a charge for violation of the assault weapons ban. This would give us an idea of how rampant the use of "high capacity" magazines is in violent crime.
    Agreed. I expect that the numbers have gone up simply because the magazines are now available.
    Last edited by Riana; 01-23-2011 at 01:17 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Well it's a good thing they're all in a huff about clips and not magazines because none of my semi-auto handguns use a clip so I'm good to go.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed as stereotypical Washington Post nonsense was the following bit of illogical tripe:

    In Richmond in 2003, Michael Antoine Wilson, 21, used his semiautomatic rifle with its 30-round magazine to shoot his 17-year-old girlfriend to death in front of children and relatives. Then he went to a nearby convenience store, killed two workers and stole a van before turning the gun on himself.
    So I count 4 shots fired. How does the fact that his magazine held 30 rounds make these crimes any ore egregious? If he had a 10 round magazine, would that somehow have made this crime less evil? If he had several 5-round mags, would his crime spree have been somehow less deadly?

    The WaPo is staffed with an interesting combination of idiots and master propagandists. It's good for a laugh, and makes acceptable hamster-cage liner, but as a news source, it leaves a LOT to be desired...


    Also, I'm wondering how many of these "seized" handguns in VA are "seized" during illegal harassament of lawful OCers, or are confiscated during traffic stops, or for "officer safety" during otherwise non-violent, and non-threatening situations. I imagine a good 90% of the people on OCDO in VA have at least one handgun with "high capacity" magazines--Glocks, Para Ordnance, XDs, HiPoints, heck, just about every manufacturer out there makes guns with "high cap" mags these days, if you use the 10-round capacity as being the cut-off mark for "low capacity"...

    BS, Washington Post. I call BS...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-23-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    A ban? All I was aware of is that there's still a definition of "assault weapon" - a firearm with a greater than 20 round magazine, a folding stock, and/or threaded barrel - for which you have to provide proof of citizenship (when purchasing from an FFL).

    I've never had any problem buying a high-capacity magazine alone, though.


    Agreed. I expect that the numbers have gone up simply because the magazines are now available.
    Yes I was loose with my language, and intentionally so. It was a bad thing to do, but you see how deflated their ban becomes when you tell them we already have a ban?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    A ban? All I was aware of is that there's still a definition of "assault weapon" - a firearm with a greater than 20 round magazine, a folding stock, and/or threaded barrel - for which you have to provide proof of citizenship (when purchasing from an FFL).

    I've never had any problem buying a high-capacity magazine alone, though.


    Agreed. I expect that the numbers have gone up simply because the magazines are now available.
    It's actually an "Assualt Firearm" definition.

    18.2-308.2:01. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons.
    C. For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    Currently, there is no stand-alone definition of any sort of "high capacity" magazine.

    The proposed bill (HB2524) as written, prohibits magazines of "20 or more rounds" and would make an "assault firearm" as defined above (based on magazine capacity) an impossibility.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 01-23-2011 at 05:22 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    They say "clip" in the title but then in the article use the correct word, magazine. It's like they don't know which is correct so they just use both.
    Them and hundreds of others.. including many gun owners I know.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    As Dreamer alluded to, I put the Post in my cat's litter box and he refused to use it.

    It would have been redundant according to him.

    They don't even try to hide their bias any more

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    So that I can be sure to offend everyone I refuse to use the term Clip, Mag or Magazine to reference that thing that holds the ammo in a semi-automatic firearm any more. I choose to use the term "ammothingy" to refer to any and all types of devices for holding ammo. I would like to propose that everyone do the same but I am sure I will get chastised for even offering such a solution so have at it.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    So that I can be sure to offend everyone I refuse to use the term Clip, Mag or Magazine to reference that thing that holds the ammo in a semi-automatic firearm any more. I choose to use the term "ammothingy" to refer to any and all types of devices for holding ammo. I would like to propose that everyone do the same but I am sure I will get chastised for even offering such a solution so have at it.
    A friend of mine had a kid that hated watching TV with any "shoots" (guns) in it because she was afraid of the noise. As she grew older, my friend as a joke still calls her gun her "shoot" and her ammo is "shoot food". It talks all kinds
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    A ban? All I was aware of is that there's still a definition of "assault weapon" - a firearm with a greater than 20 round magazine, a folding stock, and/or threaded barrel - for which you have to provide proof of citizenship (when purchasing from an FFL).

    Carrying loaded firearms in public areas

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4
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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Carrying loaded firearms in public areas
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4
    While the above fits one definition of "assault weapon," I didn't really consider this an "assault weapon ban," as it's only a ban on carry, not purchase or possession, and only addresses magazine capacity, not the other "evil" features that constitute an "assault weapon" under VA law, and only applies to particular counties.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Them and hundreds of others.. including many gun owners I know.


    +1

    shared this photo with friends
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 01-23-2011 at 09:54 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    So that I can be sure to offend everyone I refuse to use the term Clip, Mag or Magazine to reference that thing that holds the ammo in a semi-automatic firearm any more. I choose to use the term "ammothingy" to refer to any and all types of devices for holding ammo. I would like to propose that everyone do the same but I am sure I will get chastised for even offering such a solution so have at it.
    Sorry, I can't do that. I associate the non-word "thingy" with teenage girls. You know, the ones who also say, "I'm like" and "I go".
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    While the above fits one definition of "assault weapon," I didn't really consider this an "assault weapon ban," as it's only a ban on carry, not purchase or possession, and only addresses magazine capacity, not the other "evil" features that constitute an "assault weapon" under VA law, and only applies to particular counties.
    Neither this thread nor the Washington Post article that precipitated it are about "assault weapons." The focus is on high capacity magazines.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I have the article right here in front of me.

    A sub-head line proclaims: "Magazine Capacity Tracked by Police"

    Too bad they don't track and publish rights violations by their officers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    high yield? Are they talking finance or bombs?
    Probably just an accidental slip. "High yield" is probably editor-jargon for inflammatory language.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Neither this thread nor the Washington Post article that precipitated it are about "assault weapons." The focus is on high capacity magazines.
    I know - I was referencing specifically Thundar's comment and yours - that's where "assault weapon" came from.

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    Regular Member bom1911's Avatar
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    Also, “Wow, the increase since the ban’s repeal really is striking.* What about the increase in crime and murders and general mayhem?”

    Not so striking.* In fact, it never really comes up.*

    Look, the Washington Post has limited resources. They can’t be expected to examine every little factoid you might whimsically desire.


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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    normal vs. high capacity

    With the return to the marketplace of the normal magazine capacity equiped pistol as opposed to the artificially reduced (assault weapons ban era) capacity magazines, is it any wonder that more "seizures" would be including magazines of greater than 10 round capacity? If they seize a spare mag, does that count as a separate seizure to boost the count? About 75 years ago Browning came out with the "High Power" with a 13 round magazine. It is not new. It is not unusual. It is NOT high capacity. It is NORMAL capacity and has been since before the current gun grabbing crowd was born or graduated from diapers. If we use the term High Capacity magazine referencing the OEM magazines we are playing their game by their rules. We all know they will cheat anyway, why give them any advantage?

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    I wrote their ombudsman but got brushed off. He proclaimed 'it needs to go to the authors' yet if we had complained about something the Post was advocating for - like gun control - you can bet they would've jumped all over it.

    I'm not so much worried about magazine vs. clip as I am concerned about 2 specific things.

    1: The overt attempt to alter public policy to consider a capacity greater than 10 as high

    2: The overall attempt - a blatant one at that, attempt to sway public policy in any possible way to restrict and ultimately abolish the right to keep and bear arms.

    On point 1 - The industry standard determines what is "high", normal & low. A 9mm service pistol has a standard capacity of 17 rounds, commonly available in numerous models. 15 is a little less common but prevalent in the 'not quite full sized' 9mm service guns, and up to 19 / 20 rounds in models like the XDm, CZ, Beretta's px4 has a 20 rounder available, etc.

    Point 2 - Pretty much an open fact, the Post has never supported an expansion of gun rights, never failed to support a gun control measure in my adult life. I'm sure it goes farther back than that.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Many in the media have morphed the old phrase "The truth will set you free" to now reading more like "The truth hurts" so they avoid it (truth) at all costs.

    Is it any wonder that Diogenes spent no time with newspapermen of his day?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    We need to STOP using the term "high capacity magazine" to describe magazines which are the normal-size magazine for which the gun was designed.

    A 32-round mag that sticks way out of the bottom of the grip is fairly called a "high capacity magazine." The 17-round magazine that fits flush with the bottom of the gun, and is the same size as the magazine that the gun was designed around, is no more a "high capacity magazine" than the current 7-shot Model 686 is a "high capacity revolver."

    Any magazine that holds fewer rounds than the normal capacity magazine is a "legislatively-mandated low-capacity magazine."

    I realize I have about as much chance getting most people to stop describing magazines incorrectly as I might have getting Hollywood screen-writers to stop calling magazines "clips." I would hope that the folks around here would be easier to convince.

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