MarineSgt
Regular Member
Phillip,
The last section of your email that is not a quote is italicized.
The last section of your email that is not a quote is italicized.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Shooting in a Detroit Police precinct
- Thread starter office888
- Start date
eastmeyers
Regular Member
I meant to apologize to officer888 in my last post but, I didn't. I was hot headed when opening the thread and lumped him in with the other poster, when I "flew off the handle". Maybe I shouldn't have flown off the handle, but I feel I still made valid points, and again I apologize to officer888. And again, God bless these officers and their families!
officer888 I should not have just lumped you in generally in the thread, when you said nothing wrong, and that was wrong of me, I am sorry for that. I would have sent this via PM, but I thought that making it public is fair, since my condemnation was public.
Bearhawk
Regular Member
I too am very thankful that none of the officers sustained life threatening injuries due to this evil madman. I do wish those injured a speedy recovery. Nobody, police or innocent bystanders, deserve to be shot by a madman. Thankfully none were killed other than the madman himself.
I wouldn't offer condolences as those are typically reserved for when someone dies. In this case the only one that died was a criminal and I doubt many here would offer condolences to someone who died when they were criminally attacking anybody, not just police. Had an officer or an innocent bystander been killed, I would offer condolences as that would truly be sad.
I wouldn't offer condolences as those are typically reserved for when someone dies. In this case the only one that died was a criminal and I doubt many here would offer condolences to someone who died when they were criminally attacking anybody, not just police. Had an officer or an innocent bystander been killed, I would offer condolences as that would truly be sad.
DanM
Regular Member
What is an example of a valid point you have made?
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
I'm glad no one besides the shooter was killed. I have nothing against the DPD and can only begin to imagine the stress that comes with serving in a police department that has certainly seen its share problems, all of which are no fault of the patrol officers themselves. Events like this further my belief that, in any situation, the more guns possessed by those who are trained to eliminate possible threats, the better.
B
Bikenut
Guest
While it is tragic that there will always be crazy people harming innocents perhaps the most valuable lesson here is what I've highlighted in blue.
While this time those who possessed the guns that eliminated the crazy causing harm were police officers the core statement that more guns held by more people, including ordinary folks, offers a better chance to stop a crazy holds true.
Alas.... because that is simple common sense very few will understand it.
This may first sound ill-humored, but my sincerest condolences to those who lost a member of their family. I'm sure there are those who loved him just as much as people love the police officers. It is tragic whenever anyone loses his/her life, whether he/she brought it about or not. There are those who are left behind who suffer the trauma from this...parents, spouse, and/or children. Hopefully, this man was single.
I am truly thankful that none of the officers were seriously injured or killed. I honestly believe we could continue to see more and more mass shootings as the people of this society are forced more and more into difficult times and they sense no justice for themselves. This kind of event, along with so many similar to it, will be the deathblow to RKBA. I am afraid that it is just a matter of time...not IF but WHEN.
What concerns me most is that some angry OCer will target the prez and that this will "push" pro-gun legislators into going over to the anti-gunners side. Kiss your rights goodbye if that sort of event takes place, especially with this present prez. God forbid!
Notwithstanding, we will still be a land filled with guns...carried by LEOs and CRIMINALS. The average citizen will be constantly in ever-increasing dangerous situations as they move about in our society. We will also be less and less secure in our homes.
As Tiny Tim should have said, "God help us all, everyone."
I am truly thankful that none of the officers were seriously injured or killed. I honestly believe we could continue to see more and more mass shootings as the people of this society are forced more and more into difficult times and they sense no justice for themselves. This kind of event, along with so many similar to it, will be the deathblow to RKBA. I am afraid that it is just a matter of time...not IF but WHEN.
What concerns me most is that some angry OCer will target the prez and that this will "push" pro-gun legislators into going over to the anti-gunners side. Kiss your rights goodbye if that sort of event takes place, especially with this present prez. God forbid!
Notwithstanding, we will still be a land filled with guns...carried by LEOs and CRIMINALS. The average citizen will be constantly in ever-increasing dangerous situations as they move about in our society. We will also be less and less secure in our homes.
As Tiny Tim should have said, "God help us all, everyone."
Super Trucker
Regular Member
Removing most of the first paragraph is what I reccomend.
Since you are not writing on behalf of MOC, I would suggest not even mentioning the name.
This is not the time to drop names as it will only leave a bad taste for future use.
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
Update
The shooters brother was to be sentenced for a double murder shooting the night after the shooters rampage.
The Shooters home was the night before his rampage was raided by DPD to gain evidence on a kidnapping, rape and hostage for several days of a 13 year old. It appears and at this point it is just opinion that the shooter was facing prosecution on these multiple rape, kidnapping and hostage charges and DPD had the goods on him thus he was going out in a blaze of glory, and taking as many cops with him as he could.
The Detroit Police is installing metal detection in the Stations/precincts and will prohibit any and all weapons in the station by citizens. When I was asked my opinion I said it may be wrong headed and they should better secure the Precincts and address the fact that officers who should have been armed and were not.
Another note the shooter sustained multiple torso wounds and once again the DPD mandatory rubber bullets failed them. These garbage rubber filled hollow points have a long history of failure to stop incidents and the City keeps trying to cover this up. From what I am being told almost all of the wounds should have or could have stopped him if they had used real hollow point ammo.
In my humble opinion, the City of Detroit does not give a damn about their officers lives as politics is the rule of law in Detroit.
The shooters brother was to be sentenced for a double murder shooting the night after the shooters rampage.
The Shooters home was the night before his rampage was raided by DPD to gain evidence on a kidnapping, rape and hostage for several days of a 13 year old. It appears and at this point it is just opinion that the shooter was facing prosecution on these multiple rape, kidnapping and hostage charges and DPD had the goods on him thus he was going out in a blaze of glory, and taking as many cops with him as he could.
The Detroit Police is installing metal detection in the Stations/precincts and will prohibit any and all weapons in the station by citizens. When I was asked my opinion I said it may be wrong headed and they should better secure the Precincts and address the fact that officers who should have been armed and were not.
Another note the shooter sustained multiple torso wounds and once again the DPD mandatory rubber bullets failed them. These garbage rubber filled hollow points have a long history of failure to stop incidents and the City keeps trying to cover this up. From what I am being told almost all of the wounds should have or could have stopped him if they had used real hollow point ammo.
In my humble opinion, the City of Detroit does not give a damn about their officers lives as politics is the rule of law in Detroit.
Last edited:
A horrific incident indeed. I am glad all the officers survived. I wish such an event never would have happend. Yet, at the same time I hope this can be used to show people the importance in protecting yourself. Even IN A POLICE station you are not safe. I hope those that are anti-2A can be told about this incident to show 911 is not as effective as 9mm. Not trying to cast light on a dark moment, but countless lives could be saved in the future.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Law suit? Preemption applies.
TheQ
Regular Member
Let's get CADL out of the way then I'm in...
B
Bikenut
Guest
A foolish question....
If it is OK for police to put up metal detectors and prohibit citizens from carrying a gun inside a police station where it is perfectly legal for that citizen to carry a gun... can I put up metal detectors at my front and back doors and prohibit police from carrying guns inside my home even if they have legal business there?
If not... why are the police... and after the shooting of Rep. Giffords the politicians want to get in on that too... more special than me? Isn't the law supposed to apply equally to all persons?
I'm becoming dismayed with the tendency for folks to be control freak elitists in our society today.... police, politicians in both high and low office, and even some private property business owners.... seems everyone wants to rule the world, or at least their own little portion of it.
Now that I got that off my chest please excuse me while I grab my "scepter" and go sit on my "throne".
If it is OK for police to put up metal detectors and prohibit citizens from carrying a gun inside a police station where it is perfectly legal for that citizen to carry a gun... can I put up metal detectors at my front and back doors and prohibit police from carrying guns inside my home even if they have legal business there?
If not... why are the police... and after the shooting of Rep. Giffords the politicians want to get in on that too... more special than me? Isn't the law supposed to apply equally to all persons?
I'm becoming dismayed with the tendency for folks to be control freak elitists in our society today.... police, politicians in both high and low office, and even some private property business owners.... seems everyone wants to rule the world, or at least their own little portion of it.
Now that I got that off my chest please excuse me while I grab my "scepter" and go sit on my "throne".
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
When my opinion was asked I told them this would eventually invite a legal challenge. So they know this is a potential. Right now I think all of their actions are in fact knee jerk and slightly panicked. Also conversation was brought to the concept of proper securing of lobby areas to prevent someone from just jumping over the counter as this shot gun wielding maniac did. Problem is most Detroit Police precincts are still designed with a 1903 mentality. What I want to know is why commanding officers were unarmed. This is a huge problem in Detroit's precincts, where they leave their weapons in the lockers or at home. Poor training, poor security of both the perimeter and building and a complete lack of attention was more a problem. Thank GOD the shooter didn't employ buckshot as opposed to light bird shot, otherwise there would have been a death toll.
maustin195
Regular Member
I agree 100%. To me there job is to enforce the laws as written. When they try to make there own rules contrary to the law they should loose all respect from the public. Just because they don't like a law does not give them the right to ignore it any more then I can ignore any law I don't like.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Lazy, that's why they don't wear it. Also a false sense of security. When My uncle worked the front desk as a MSP Sgt. he didn't wear his duty belt, but had a J-frame .38 with a couple of re-loaders in his pocket.
I'm not opposed to a retaining glass partition, in fact most places have this. I'm not opposed to a security person at the door for visual surveillance (passive deterrent). I am opposed to baning firearms from the building without authority.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Kinda like this mentality (THE ONLY ONES)
http://www.azcentral.com/news/elect...125arizona-gun-policy-senate-pearce-memo.html
Pearce to Senate: It's OK to pack heat
Mary K. Reinhart - Jan. 25, 2011 06:17 PM
The Arizona Republic
Just in case there was any doubt, Senate President Russell Pearce on Tuesday sent a memo to lawmakers clarifying his policy on guns in the Senate: Feel free to pack heat.
Pearce's policy may conflict with the state law that's posted at the entrance to both the Senate and House advising visitors they cannot bring weapons inside. But he says the state Constitution gives him authority to make the rules within the building.
"A member of the Legislature does not lose his or her Second Amendment rights when coming to work each day," Pearce said in the memo. "If any member feels it is needed for their safety, I support that right."
Pearce's policy came under scrutiny after freshman Sen. Lori Klein, R-Anthem, brought her handgun onto the House floor during the Legislature's opening-day ceremonies. Klein said she had permission to bring her gun into the chambers, but neither security personnel nor House Speaker Kirk Adams could confirm that.
Adams has remained silent on the matter, and his spokesman said there is no House policy on whether members can carry weapons.
State law prohibits members of the public from carrying guns into public buildings. Gun lobbyists, for example, routinely surrender their weapons to security personnel while they're visiting the House and Senate.
But it's basically an honor system since the buildings aren't secured with metal detectors. "I just don't see the need for it," said John Wentling, vice president of the Citizens Defense League. "God knows how many people are walking around with their guns."
That's what worries Sen. Krysten Sinema, D-Phoenix. She said she'll ask Pearce for a list of members who are packing. "I think I should have a right to know," Sinema said. "I have to sit next to them."
Last edited:
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
The person I talked to was also responsible for getting open carry training finally right to the letter of the law as opposed to the City Attorney who got most of it wrong and misinformed the officers.
I think the city should seek Federal grants to put up proper security both for the officers and citizens who are in the stations. I also have no problems with bullet resistant perimeters to limit some human garbage from trying this again. And we agree that citizens need not be punished for this act of stupidity.
I won't walk to check my mail without, so I am finding a Police officer on duty to not carry incomprehensibly stupid.
I think the city should seek Federal grants to put up proper security both for the officers and citizens who are in the stations. I also have no problems with bullet resistant perimeters to limit some human garbage from trying this again. And we agree that citizens need not be punished for this act of stupidity.
I won't walk to check my mail without, so I am finding a Police officer on duty to not carry incomprehensibly stupid.
JimMullinsWVCDL
State Researcher
FYI, Arizona Senate President Russell Pearce is a cosponsor of SB 1201, which would limit carry bans in "public establishments" (government owned or operated buildings and vehicle) and "public events" (events open to the public and licensed by the government) to locations that are "a secured facility with controlled access or is a secured facility that is issued a [liquor] license[,]" have specific signage posted, and have on-site gun storage lockers at each public entrance.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Well until then don't let the legislature carry in places the public can't. Seems fair to me. Maybe that would help it get passed faster.
Last edited: